Any Orients not Made in Japan?

[Scottish Steve]

I've just been on "the other forum" and read a thread in which it was stated that some Orients are not made in Japan. My understanding was that all of them were. Is this not the case? On my (only) Orient it clearly states "Japan" on the dial with no other mention of any other country- I assume this legally guarantees country of manufacture. I've noticed some others around the same or lower pricepoint have "Made in Japan" on the dial or caseback, which is obviously a no-brainer and "Japan Mvt" means "definitely not cased in Japan". I'm worried about the possibility of misrepresentation/misinformation and consider it something of an aspersion to state something's cheaply made in China or wherever, when its not.
Can an Orient Moderator or otherwise qualified person please clarify?

[JapanWatch]

Not certain on every answer but:

Orient does have a factory in Brazil, but I believe none of those products are sold in the US.

Seiko owns Orient outright. Seiko makes watches in Japan, Malaysia, and some movements in China. I don't know about Orients other factories. Orient was originally an independent company and still produces unique products (not a GM Camaro/Firebird situation).

[Scottish Steve]

Not certain on every answer but:

Orient does have a factory in Brazil, but I believe none of those products are sold in the US.

Seiko owns Orient outright. Seiko makes watches in Japan, Malaysia, and some movements in China. I don't know about Orients other factories. Orient was originally an independent company and still produces unique products (not a GM Camaro/Firebird situation).

I bought mine in China, but from a very reputable dealer. Does the "Japan" stamp not guarantee its Japanese?

After a think, I'm asuming its pretty unlikely that all the examples of the model I've just bought which are available in The US would be Japanese made, apart from the one with the brown dial, though I wonder if this is available, why its not shown on the OUSA site? I am surprised that there's been no input from Orient themselves at this point....especially if, assuming you're right, there is a brasilian plant. That might be something they'd rather not comment on for obvious reasons.

[Tzimisces]

I bought mine in China, but from a very reputable dealer. Does the "Japan" stamp not guarantee its Japanese?

After a think, I'm asuming its pretty unlikely that all the examples of the model I've just bought which are available in The US would be Japanese made, apart from the one with the brown dial, though I wonder if this is available, why its not shown on the OUSA site? I am surprised that there's been no input from Orient themselves at this point....especially if, assuming you're right, there is a brasilian plant. That might be something they'd rather not comment on for obvious reasons.

Here's a link to the Orient Brazil site. They make some unique models not available elsewhere. Orient has manufacturing facilities in Japan, Singapore and Brazil. Many models available in Japan are not available at Orient USA, which is a distributor.
Orient

[OldeCrow]

I would imagine that like Seiko, most of the movement parts at least are made in Japan and then outsourced to Hong-Kong and other places for assembly for most of the product lines. There is very little that is actually made and assembled in Japan from start to finish except for perhaps some of the Orient Star's but I wouldn't count on them being 100% Japan parts either.

[Coolie_ND]

I've just been on "the other forum" and read a thread in which it was stated that some Orients are not made in Japan. My understanding was that all of them were. Is this not the case? On my (only) Orient it clearly states "Japan" on the dial with no other mention of any other country- I assume this legally guarantees country of manufacture. I've noticed some others around the same or lower pricepoint have "Made in Japan" on the dial or caseback, which is obviously a no-brainer and "Japan Mvt" means "definitely not cased in Japan". I'm worried about the possibility of misrepresentation/misinformation and consider it something of an aspersion to state something's cheaply made in China or wherever, when its not.
Can an Orient Moderator or otherwise qualified person please clarify?

There are Orients which have also labeled "Made in China" as well.
See: Orient World Timer New edition vs. Old edition (A JDM no less).

You will also notice in that thread, there's a guy who claims that "Made in Japan" doesn't necessarily mean 100% of the watch made in Japan, but the same can be said of "Swiss Made". However, he didn't give any documentation of this. Interesting to note, he also claims in that thread that they differentiate between "Made in Japan" (日本製) and "Purely Made in Japan" (純日本製) - again, no confirmation.

Same person claimed even further that he contacted the JWCA (http://www.jcwa.or.jp/) about the MIJ label and was told even worse here: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/pur...ml#post3120065.
Another member claimed a slightly different thing here: http://forums.watchuseek.com/2549636-post13.html; still, end claim is it's not necessary to be 100% produced in japan. The JWCA doesn't expound on this on their site, but perhaps you want to contact them?

Still, without real reference, the above is heresay. It would be nice to have confirmation either way from a authoritative figure on this, but have yet to run across anything of the type. Just providing food for thought, up to you how you take this!

[Tzimisces]

Up to you how you take this!

With a big grain of salt.
The only thing less reliable than Wikipedia are forum posts.
It is frustratingly difficult to get information on Orient, but it should be noted that all watch companies are coy about such things. In todays global economy very few things can be said to be 100% a product of a given country. I wouldn't worry too much about it, certain watch brands are a far riskier proposition because they just source movements and have no control or even interest in quality control.

[Scottish Steve]

Interesting replies, which serve to illustrate how murky this country of origin thing really is. I read once on the Swiss Horology Federation's site that Swiss Made means more than 50% of the parts of the piece, in terms of moneteray value, must be manufactured in Switzerland and it must be assembled and sealed in Switzerland also, but that gives a LOT of leeway. I mean, how much does the bracelet and case of a heavy watch cost? I'm certain you could legally put a Sea-Gull movement into an impressive case and bracelet and stamp it Swiss Made. Nothing wrong with Sea-Gull of course, but that's not the point at issue here.
What gets me is that the there is no need for the country of origin to determine quality, but it often does, simply due to the fact that higher wages and overheads equals higher RRP to recoup the same profit margin, meaning higher quality or percieved quality is a must. No-one wants to pay the same price for something that cost 4 times less to produce. What the west has stupidly done is keep the quality equivalent and instead gone for huge profit-margins. I'd be perfectly happy to pay the same money for something 3 times as well-made, knowing up-front that it came from China, but to obfuscate the issue and have a huge proportion of the watch industry pushing the idea that only one country can make really good pieces, is just wrong.

[J.D.B.]

The "light-powered" model pictured here on my wrist is marked "made in China"

Josh

[Scottish Steve]

Got this reply from yesterday from Orient

Dear Mr. (Scottish Steve)

We received your e-mail dated 10th October, 2010.

Thank you very much for your purchase and inquiry of our Orient Automatic model DBAA.

About the marking on the dial, there are some information for the production.

For "Japan", it means that the movement was made in Japan. (Please note the meaning of those marking information vary with the models.)
We are producing our own mechanical movement in Japan for the whole world, so we can say all mechanical movement in Orient Watch are "Made in Japan".

And, we now have 3 different assembling factories in Japan, China & Brazil and supplying the products to the each countries depends on the several conditions. There are any differences between those assembling factories, we are providing the same material & quality control of Orient standard, and movement itself is exactly same.

We are sure the movement of your watch was produced in Japan, and we guess that your watch was assembled in China.

Thanks and best regards.

Orient Watch Co., Ltd.

Tokyo, Japan
Customer Relations

I assume they mean "there are not any differences between......"
The only irksome thing about this prompt and courteous reply is the phrase

For "Japan", it means that the movement was made in Japan. (Please note the meaning of those marking information vary with the models.)