Clarification on Poljot, Volmax, Vostok Europe, ...some Russian watch brands & UFOs

[michele]

Thank you very much, Irina. The mystery about several recent watches is resolved. Hovewer, i still wonder who is the producer of those watches. I'm thinking to buy an Aeronavgator (not from Levenberg though) and i wonder who is the producer.
Also, is this an official Poljot watch?

[Docrwm]

Irina - Вы!

I'd love to know how you came to know so much about the Russian watch industry and the behind the scenes details of distribution and such regarding Russian watches? Your English is certainly much better than my Deutsch or my non-existant Русско.

[Mark Gordon]

Finally, I have a big picture of what is happening.
Many thanks.
-- Mark

[Chascomm]

Thanks for that detailed summary, Irina. I particularly appreciate the background info on Juri Levenberg.

I'm very glad that you could find the time in your very busy schedule to visit us here I guess you're taking a moment to catch your breath after Inhorgenta? I look forward to your report if you have time. How was the response to the Red Square?

Are you ready for Basel?

[woodman]

from another source, it said Vostok Europe is cooperate with Vostok and Leschot

eg.
http://www.tdctrade.com/mne/time/time011102.htm

Irina , Thanks your GOOD article

[irina_maier]

Thanks a lot to everybody for the feedbacks!!!
I will try to answer newly appeared questions and give some more additional information tonight (European time).
Irina

[irina_maier]

Hello, again

As promised – here is a short summary on some comments, questions, etc.
I am writing just in the sequence the questions appeared in the thread


michele
Thank you very much, Irina. The mystery about several recent watches is resolved. Hovewer, i still wonder who is the producer of those watches. I'm thinking to buy an Aeronavgator (not from Levenberg though) and i wonder who is the producer.
Also, is this an official Poljot watch?


<The mystery about the producer(s) of some recent watches cannot be officially resolved as I can΄t make any official statement about it. There is/are no official producer/s and any inofficial information must be handled very carefully. In any case in some of those watches old / not regulated / partly used /,etc. movements are used and definitely not all watch parts are of good quality. However I offer some more information that might help.
First: Aeronavigator is not an official Poljot watch.
Second: here is the list of the most known watches that have nothing to do with Poljot or Volmax production (there are certainly not all watches listed)
---------
Pilot
Avia Classic
Kirov with the case other than 650 (Example of the 650 case see:http://www.aviator-buran.com/Buran/2614.html)
Poljarnik
Moscow Classic
Sturmovik
Amfibia (Molnija movement)
Aeronavigator>
……………………………………………….
Docrwm


I'd love to know how you came to know so much about the Russian watch industry and the behind the scenes details of distribution and such regarding Russian watches? Your English is certainly much better than my Deutsch or my non-existant Русско.


<I wish I really knew so much! The process of learning is never-ending. One can never know much enough. I was born in Estonia (the former Soviet Union) and my native language is Russian. My English used to be much better but when I married my husband and moved to Germany it gradually became worse and worse.
The idea to work with Russian watches came to my husband and me some years ago. As I originally come from “big Russia” , speak the language and know Russian mentality very well it made it easier for us to start the business. We learnt a lot! It΄s only important to be eager to learn, to respect other people, their interests and way of thinking, the rest is achievable. But if you knew how much there is to learn still!!!
Regarding background information. It is very simple – watch business is a wide circle like in any other sphere. You meet new people, communicate with a lot of people, know quite a lot of them personally and, you know how it is, if people can rely on you, they share information.
My husband leads the business (he is German)n and I try to help him as much as I can by keeping good business and human contacts with the Russian side (this is my direct task that I like very much) and by supporting him in all business matters, so it works very well.
By the way, Russian is not that difficult, Robert, I think German is much worse with all those "der, die, das, dem, den, etc". It is never late to start.>
…………………………………………………..
Chascomm


Thanks for that detailed summary, Irina. I particularly appreciate the background info on Juri Levenberg.
I'm very glad that you could find the time in your very busy schedule to visit us here. I guess you're taking a moment to catch your breath after Inhorgenta? I look forward to your report if you have time. How was the response to the Red Square?
Are you ready for Basel?

<The Inhorgenta was a good success for us. It was a very intensive and interesting period of time. It is always good to see that the work we do is appreciated by people and a lot of positive feedback is coming. We organized participation at the fair and our producers and also the distributor from Poland worked all together at the Fair. Very good working atmosphere in our booth and success on the business side.
Red Squary – a very very positive response. My first reaction when I took the ready watch in the hand was a real astonishment. It is solid stainless steel, it is very big, heavy, but anyway elegant and really unusual. Everybody liked it.
Inhorgenta as trade fair attracted more visitors this year as compared to 2005 but with fewer participants (not considerably). There will be an official report released soon – the trade fair general results, as exhibitor we got it already, so it should soon appear on the Inhorgenta website for everybody. www.inhorgenta.com
Basel is being prepared by our manufacturers. For us, as distributor, this trade fair is of minor importance. Last year we were present in Basel the whole time not only to make new contacts, but also to help the producers. This year no real help is needed, the experiences made by our producers at different trade fairs are rich now. We will certainly come to visit, to stay for a couple of days and quite for sure to help if necessary. It is always great to meet people you gladly work with. >
………………………………
woodman

from another source, it said Vostok Europe is cooperate with Vostok and Leschot
eg. http://www.tdctrade.com/mne/time/time011102.htm

<That is a very old source and it is out-of-date. There was kind of cooperation between the Vostok factory and the company Leschot but it was not long lasting and had nothing to do with VE. Koliz Vostok (Vostok-Europe) was founded later and there was absolutely no connection between VE and Leschot. >
……………………………………
jofla

Do you know something about Raketa watches ? Are there Chinese made movements in a recent production ? How to recognize Chinese if there they are/
Or, how to recognize newer Russian movements from the older Soviet movement models. and what are differences ?

<Here you got me! I had to ask for help using a very reliable source (top secret :-X ), so I am just pasting the information that came in the afternoon by e-mail. >.....
The Raketa factory (located in Petrodvoretz city near St. Petersburg)) stopped production of movements about 10 years ago. The factory was sold out to one of new-Russian financial groups who were mostly interested in buildings of the factory than in production of something. Nevertheless, there was thousands of movements in the stock of the factory and they used these movements for making cheap watches with Chinese cases and dials. Now they just order complete watches from China with Raketa brand.
To be honest Raketa calibers were most reliable wrist-winding movements from all Soviet movements 20 years ago (including Poljot 2614)...
By the way, there are at least 5 "Russian" brands like SOYUZ who use 100% made in China watches for own "brand" - most of Romanoff watches (they have big quartz collection), Nesterov, Raketa, Record ( another name of Soyuz) and some others... There are hundreds of such local brands in EACH country who follow the same way, but they never say that “we are "made in Finland"” for example...>

…………………………………………………..

I hope I could give some additional useful information to the Forum members.

With my best regards

Irina

[michele]

<The mystery about the producer(s) of some recent watches cannot be officially resolved as I can΄t make any official statement about it. There is/are no official producer/s and any inofficial information must be handled very carefully. In any case in some of those watches old / not regulated / partly used /,etc. movements are used and definitely not all watch parts are of good quality. However I offer some more information that might help.
First: Aeronavigator is not an official Poljot watch.
Second: here is the list of the most known watches that have nothing to do with Poljot or Volmax production (there are certainly not all watches listed)
---------
Pilot
Avia Classic
Kirov with the case other than 650 (Example of the 650 case see:http://www.aviator-buran.com/Buran/2614.html)
Poljarnik
Moscow Classic
Sturmovik
Amfibia (Molnija movement)
Aeronavigator>

This is a bad new, because i have ordered an Aeronavigator just yesterday Anyway, it seems a quite nice watch, and that Molnija caliber seems of good quality - all in all, it is a Russian watch at least for 60%, justy like an Hamilton (that produces the cases in China).
The problem is that there are new watches with Poljot brand (like the one that i have posted) but i'm not sure that they effectively comes from the First Moscow Watch Factory :-S But the production of consumer goods in the world is now so fragmented that you can have a Chinese case, a Swiss or Russian movement, an Italian strap , and it's very hard to understand what is around us. :-S

<The Inhorgenta was a good success for us. It was a very intensive and interesting period of time. It is always good to see that the work we do is appreciated by people and a lot of positive feedback is coming. We organized participation at the fair and our producers and also the distributor from Poland worked all together at the Fair. Very good working atmosphere in our booth and success on the business side.
Red Squary – a very very positive response. My first reaction when I took the ready watch in the hand was a real astonishment. It is solid stainless steel, it is very big, heavy, but anyway elegant and really unusual. Everybody liked it.

I agree, it's a very nice watch. I like it a lot although i usually don't like square or rectangular cases.
I own a Vostok N1 Rocket (black case) since one month, and i think that it worthy of a great success, it's full of personality The only thing that i don't like, is the lack of the quick setting for the date window, that is a feature that must be added to attract more customers.

The Raketa factory (located in Petrodvoretz city near St. Petersburg)) stopped production of movements about 10 years ago. The factory was sold out to one of new-Russian financial groups who were mostly interested in buildings of the factory than in production of something. Nevertheless, there was thousands of movements in the stock of the factory and they used these movements for making cheap watches with Chinese cases and dials. Now they just order complete watches from China with Raketa brand.
To be honest Raketa calibers were most reliable wrist-winding movements from all Soviet movements 20 years ago (including Poljot 2614)..

As far as i know, Raketa is still in activity, although i guess that now it's quite a small producer quite than a big factory. Their website http://pchz.narod.ru is online since three years , and my sensation (seeing several of their movements) is that they are mixing old-stock movements and new (but cheaper - no anti-shock on the escapement wheel) movements, although always of Russian project (caliber 2609 and derivatives).
The cases of those watches looks of Russian production/design to me (substantially the same of the USSR models, but with lower quality), also because they have still a section for the production of cases according to their website.
I have seen also Raketa-branded automatic watches, and they have totally different cases and movements, being definitely Chinese products.
Some news about Slava? Are they still producing Russian movements, are they definitely switching to Chinese movements, or have they definitely stopped the production?
I understand that it's a lot of questions :-D

[zippofan]

I have noticed that the Raketas that I have received recently have writing on the caseback as opposed to an older one that just had a number. The writing is in Cyrillic, and says "Made in Russia", not "Made in Soviet Union".

I don't mind Chinese watches, but if I buy something that says made in Russia I assume that is where it is made. When I buy a Timex I know it isn't made in the USA any more and that is fine, they don't represent their products as being made in the USA. The whole Swiss Made regulations that specify 51% of the value of a watch must be made in Switzerland, which could be one gear(!), and the rest of the parts come from China or wherever is a misrepresentation and I find it annoying, global economy or not (especially at those prices!). Same thing with the German watches that say made in Germany and have a Chinese movement (of which there are some very nice ones like Trias).

Personally I would love to buy a Seagull Chinese chronograph and know that it is made in China. I would be annoyed if that same watch was labeled Swiss or Russian or American etc. I guess what I am trying to say is that if it is Chinese, call it Chinese, if it is Russian, call it Russian, if it is made from a bunch of different parts from different countries, say it! Just like my Timex that says made in China, parts made in Phillipines or wherever, I don't care, I like my Timex watches for what they are, an inexpensive time keeper that I don't have to worry about bashing off my snare drum when I play. I like my Raketas for what they are too, the most inexpensive 24hr watch.

Sorry, rant off :-X Just a newbie's humble opinion...

Regards,
Griff

[irina_maier]

Hello and sorry for just answering shortly the last posting, too much work….


Thank you for all of your comments, but are you sure about your 'infos' on Mr. Levenberg? Then why does his eBay shop say the following?:
official POLJOT & MOLNIJA selling in Germany


One should not mix “exclusive right” and “official dealer”.
- Former Poljot had no distribution net abroad and so, each company that officially bought Poljot watches at least once, (at the factory or through another company) theoretically had the right to call itself “official dealer”. Poljot has not got the official list of its dealers yet. So, it is too early to comment on this topic.

- Regarding Molnija. It is true that Mr. Levenberg earlier bought Molnija watches directly fom the factory, however the Molnija factory did not give his company any right as a sole agency. In the nearest future our company is receiving the first delivery of Molnija watches from the factory as their official partner. (By the way, Molnija is working on its web presentation at present)
*****
It is not always easy to clear things from the past. The situation today is different. One by one Russian watch factories manage to develop a distribution system for their watch brands, they pay more attention to their web presentation and proudly present lists of their official partners -official dealers of today, as we understand it and accept – dealers, who promote the products they sell, who carry responsibility for their actions, dealers who can be relied upon by their customers und who still follow the motto: “ First my customers΄ interests and wishes, then my own”.
Just keep a close eye on further development of the Russian watch industry, things are changing!

Irina