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Advice Needed: Seiko 5 Complete Overhaul

3K views 14 replies 8 participants last post by  jcoffin1981 
#1 ·
I figure the best time to start a watch project is the day I finish a watch project.

I finished a nice 6r15 project today, and she is pretty, and now I'd like to move to a more complicated project: Fixing a busted watch.

I've completed several mod projects, but I always had either a new watch or new parts to use. Other than a stem/crown and rotor replacement, I haven't done much to fix a busted watch.

With that in mind, I sourced several old Seiko 5 watches with various movements from flea bay and a bag (yes, a bag) of old movements to go along with it. However, I'd like some advice before getting elbow-deep in watch parts.

Questions:
1. Is there any way to save a movement with rust on it, or am I wasting my time?
2. What cleaners and lube can you recommend?
3. Of the movements pictured, what advice can you share?
4. I've read Nicholas Hacko's 7s26 guide, but are there similar guides for the other movements?
4. Other advice?











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#2 ·
There are ways of cleaning off rust and restoring, though it depends on the part and how bad it is rusted. But you really need to know what you are looking at to tell if the part is still usable once you have cleaned it up.
But if you are a beginner then you don't really want to be working on old knackered ones like these. It will be a lot easier to buy a working movement to learn how to take it apart and put back together, as that way you know it (hopefully) will work when you are finished.
 
#5 ·
This is very good advice. I'm convinced that learning how to properly disassemble, fix, and reassemble a movement is easier on a properly functioning movement. My only hangup is that I dislike tearing apart perfectly fine watches and movements. My most recent mod project was built from scratch because I didn't like tearing down a brand new SKX to make the mods. I'd hate to tear apart a new movement and destroy it by accident.

At least with the broken movements, I have nothing to lose - I can't kill what's already dead.

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#3 ·
Questions:

3. Of the movements pictured, what advice can you share?

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I serviced a 6309 recently, same case model as photographed (8500?) in case they throw something with that 2 armed pawl arrangement in an upcoming auto exam.

Firstly - nearly the entire movement is obsolete, so parts can be problematic. Cousins have a 16.50GBP ex-vat GR mainspring that's a poor fit to the arbour hook, and a crown and stem that won't thread to each other. A Sternkreuz crystal was pretty decent.

Watch out for wear where the barrel runs in humble plate holes, and the self winding bearings, which are mounted on the framework rather than the oscillating weight. My £10 eBay jobbie was made in 1982, and the bearings were worn enough to hear the weight hit the caseback when shaken. A prod with pegwood confirmed way too much play. A 10 euro partworn set from Spain is... partworn but at least doesn't hit the caseback.

Here's the eccentric post on the original, worn down to a slender ellipse!
Product Electronics Optoelectronics Close-up Technology


The setting lever for the day and date wheels looks complex, but it's actually all rivetted together. I had to use a precision oiler to lubricate as a consequence, there's not much space to get to the wheel posts.

Lastly, either I'm mad or there's a translation error in the tech sheet regarding the chamfered ring that secures the day wheel. "Direct the chamfered face downwards", it says. To me, that means the chamfered face faces the day wheel, which is wrong!

I say "the chamfer should slope down to the movement, like the slope of a roof to the house below it".

Top Circle
 
#4 ·
I serviced a 6309 recently, same case model as photographed (8500?) in case they throw something with that 2 armed pawl arrangement in an upcoming auto exam.

Firstly - nearly the entire movement is obsolete, so parts can be problematic. Cousins have a 16.50GBP ex-vat GR mainspring that's a poor fit to the arbour hook, and a crown and stem that won't thread to each other. A Sternkreuz crystal was pretty decent.

Watch out for wear where the barrel runs in humble plate holes, and the self winding bearings, which are mounted on the framework rather than the oscillating weight. My £10 eBay jobbie was made in 1982, and the bearings were worn enough to hear the weight hit the caseback when shaken. A prod with pegwood confirmed way too much play. A 10 euro partworn set from Spain is... partworn but at least doesn't hit the caseback.

Here's the eccentric post on the original, worn down to a slender ellipse!
View attachment 13069405

The setting lever for the day and date wheels looks complex, but it's actually all rivetted together. I had to use a precision oiler to lubricate as a consequence, there's not much space to get to the wheel posts.

Lastly, either I'm mad or there's a translation error in the tech sheet regarding the chamfered ring that secures the day wheel. "Direct the chamfered face downwards", it says. To me, that means the chamfered face faces the day wheel, which is wrong!

I say "the chamfer should slope down to the movement, like the slope of a roof to the house below it".

View attachment 13069423
Good advice wrt the 6309. Thank you!

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#8 · (Edited)
Watch out for wear where the barrel runs in humble plate holes...

...Lastly, either I'm mad or there's a translation error in the tech sheet regarding the chamfered ring that secures the day wheel. "Direct the chamfered face downwards", it says. To me, that means the chamfered face faces the day wheel, which is wrong!

I say "the chamfer should slope down to the movement, like the slope of a roof to the house below it".

View attachment 13069423
What is a "humble plate"...?

The chamfer DOES face toward the day disc. If you put the flat side down it may drag on the disc preventing complete advancement or causing it to move with the hour wheel...

Regards BG
 
#10 ·
"Watch out for wear where the barrel runs in humble plate holes" - meaning the barrel runs in holes in the plate, rather than in bushings or jewels. "Humble" as in less high end manufacture than longer lasting bushes or jewels.

Following the chamfer mating to day wheel instruction would not allow the day wheel to advance. When I gave up and flipped the circlip over, the circlip *clipped* into place with minimal effort and the day wheel ran freely straight away. It still is - I'm wearing that 6309 now.
Sorry...just not familiar with the use of that term for the barrel and train wheel bridge.
Don't forget that barrel arbor wear and wear to the bearing surfaces in the barrel and endcap are also issues due to lack of regular service and Seiko's choice of materials and engineering.

As for the clip...if it is not working with the chamfer oriented toward the day disc (as specified in the service manual), then there is some other alignment issue.

Regards, BG
 
#14 ·
I returned to this chamfer question today, to get to the truth of the matter. I popped the C ring off, reversed it so the chamfer was facing the wheel, and tried the quick advance.

Metal


and it works. All I did was reverse the ring, the day wheel was still in place, and I could see the jumper was still properly engaged through the cutout in the day wheel.

No real answers... Why did it jam up chamfer down before? Why did chamfer up work? Looking at the ring, whether the chamfer is oriented up or down there is nothing for it to foul upon!
 
#15 ·
If you are looking for a good project watch, a good choice would be a mechanical thats not rusted out, but is maybe running and is now gaining a few minutes a day. This way you know you are not starting off with a watch which is beyond repair or requires more than your skills allow. Maybe one without an auto or date complication and you can really just concentrate on scrub-a-dubbing old oil and inspecting the a parts and getting it back to proper running order.
 
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