Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT - Page 11
Like Tree13Likes

Thread: Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Results 101 to 109 of 109
  1. #101
    Member nauz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    199

    Re: Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

    Quote Originally Posted by hr8799 View Post
    Excellent question. I'm not sure yet. I've looked at some transparent sticky film that could (using photoshop) be printed with the markings in white. There are a few products online that look possible, but most have mixed reviews. I'm also skeptical about their durability ... but I could put an extra layer of something like clear packing tape over it for added protection. In the end, I felt like these kinds of options could ended up looking like crap after a month (or less!) of use, so I haven't tried it. But I guess I could just print a hundred and replace it as needed!

    Look forward to seeing the solution you come up with.

    How about the numbering on the stainless plate in the front? Will you repaint with black or leave all stainless?
    For the stainless I'd just use an enamel paint if you can. But for the heater/dryer I'd make a stencil and then spray paint with krylon or something for ceramic. Might not last forever but still good enough to look nice and you can always remove it if you don't like it or mess up.

  2. #102
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    52
    This thread has been very helpful. Thanks to Chris and others for their posts. Earlier in the thread the magnet polarity for the ultrasonic receptacles was discussed -- the two magnets on either side of the wash receptacle and two on the rinse. For the rinse receptacle, I have magnets with yellow on one side. I am trying to see if I accidentally reversed these magnets. Where I last left it, the rinse receptacle's left magnet was yellow-side down (facing bottom of the unit) and the right magnet was yellow side up. Is this correct? Yellow is South based on my test with a compass. Should the magnets be arranged north aka down and south aka up or south Up for both? I think the question strikes at the basis of the mechanical ultrasonics work on these when power is applied but I am not close enough to it to fully understand it yet.

  3. #103
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    52
    I wanted to update the thread with what I have learned. Thanks to hr8799 for his private message help. The consensus is that the magnets should be at the same polarity for each receptacle (wash or rinse.) For mine, I measured the yellow polarity with a compass and its south. I then measured the receptacle I did not touch with a compass, wash. Both of these magnets seem to show they are yellow-side down (north facing up.) I will go ahead and put yellow down for both magnets on the rinse side. If I hit issues with that I will update the thread. I also wanted to share one tip-- never remove a wash or rinse cup while ultrasonic is turned-on on these machines. Doing-so has led me down this repeated fuse blown pattern once ultrasonic runs for about a minute. I will be replacing tubes and have cleaned-up and tested the unit. If the tubes appear to have solved the issue I will update the thread. It will be possible other things I did helped fix it but I would assume they are minor and would assume the tubes were it. Note in cleaning,
    under the cup receptacles is a floating bar with a contact switch and the red anodes (?) for the receptacles. Solution can fall on these parts and make them sticky. They should be cleaned at least once a year from the underside of the unit. The gunk can make this switch stick and fail to operate.
    Not sure if that happened to me when I removed the cup while ultrasonic running but my floating bar was dirty and somewhat sticky. This floating bar switch is designed to cut power to the unit if a cup is removed while ultrasonic is turned on.
    Last edited by watchsavant; June 11th, 2017 at 00:00.

  4. #104
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

    Hello watchsavant:

    sounds like you are on the right track! I bet you'll be up and running in no time.

    What helped me to understand how the parts work together was to remind myself of how a standard / cheap speaker works (paper cone, copper coil, permanent magnet, rod, membrane, etc.). Our machine has two speakers a rinse and wash speaker! And has all of the equivalent bits of a speaker.

    For example, take your common woofer, its permanent magnet is a symmetric hollow cylinder in which sits the copper coil surrounding a fixed ferrous metal pole. Exposed to the permanent magnet’s magnetic field, the pole becomes magnetized and assumes the same magnetic orientation as the perm. mag. In our case, this pole is attached to the stainless cups. The now-localized magnetic field of the pole provides something for the alternating magnetic field produced by the copper coil to push/pull against. Without it, the speaker's [paper cone + coil] or watchmaster's [stainless cup+pole] would not vibrate. In the watch cleaner, the equivalent permanent magnet is provided by the two pairs of small bar-magnets that sit on either side of our (held fixed) copper coils. Now you can see why it is important for these two bars to be oriented the same way (same polarity). If they were opposite, they would not work together to induce enough magnetism in the pole (as the speaker's magnet does) and would actually prevent vibrations.

    So it is important that the two mags have a common orientation. If reversed (like I did by mistake!), the system acts as if you were holding the cups with your hand, preventing them from vibrating – the circuit will draw too much current and BOOM, blown fuse. All is relative as to what is vibrating and what is fixed. So, if you were to run the machine with the cups out of the slot, and the pole not in the coil, a similar situation happens leading to too much current and a blown fuse.

    Thinking of the machine as a pair of basic speakers really cleared things up for me. OK, there is a bit more to it (to make the high frequencies) but clear enough for me :)

    A few things people suggested that helped (thanks everybody!)
    - GE and RCA tubes work, Sylvania tubes will not work
    - buy a kill-a-watt device for $25 bucks and measure the amps.

    This helped me avoid blowing more fuses (kill the power if current starts climbing up and getting close to 4 or 5 amps, save your fuse!). Good US action is around 2.8 to 3 amps for me. I'm paranoid (after blowing 6 fuses!) and watch the amps every time I use the machine ... I also have a fire extinguisher nearby. The cleaning fluids are flammable and the tubes get hot and, well, best to be safe.
    Last edited by hr8799; June 12th, 2017 at 00:01.

  5. #105
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    52
    Superb helpful and intuitive write-up, thanks

  6. #106
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    52

    Re: Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

    Quote Originally Posted by watchsavant View Post
    Superb helpful and intuitive write-up, thanks
    I wanted to update the thread as promised. The new replacement tubes today arrived. The unit is now working properly again and not blowing fuses. Here I will summarize key lessons learned and add a few more notes:

    1) do not remove an ultrasonic cup while ultrasonic is running.
    2) if by accident you do remove a cup or start the ultrasonic without cups installed, there is a rocker bar-style safety mechanism I described in a few posts earlier that is designed to cut off power and protect the unit as I understand it. These rocker bars and the cutoff switch contact collect spilled fluid and can get sticky and gunked-up. If it does, it can prevent the safety mechanism from working. This mechanism can be easily reached from the bottom of the unit and can be cleaned. These units can be dangerous to handle, don't touch the capacitors for example, they hold a dangerous charge even if the unit is unplugged. If you are not experienced with electronics then I recommend you get help for keeping the unit cleaned up safely.
    3) if the unit fails to protect itself, the tubes can fail. One mode of failure has them pulling too much power and quickly blowing the fuse after a brief period of ultrasonic operation. If your fuse is blowing, consider replacing the tubes and safely cleaning the unit as the next course of action. Tubes are readily available on the famous auction site and inexpensive.
    4) new/additional note-- when I inspected the unit, I inspected the copper coils. There is paper-like tubing that is used to suspend the copper coil that sits between the magnets. This paper tubing is very important because the copper coil hitting the case can cause a problem. On mine, this tube/paper was improperly installed for the rinse receptacle. The paper wraps around the pillar support for the receptacle and each of its two arms should "hug" the coil above and below it, keeping it suspended in the receptacle so it doesn't drop. If you inspect anything around the coils, look for this item and also assure you reinstall it properly.
    5) finally, if inspecting the coils and removing the magnets, reinstall them so they share the same polarity as discussed in the posts just above this one. Also consider use of a kill-a-watt as described above by another poster-- a great suggestion-- to monitor current consumption when troubleshooting and his other tips and answers.
    Thanks again for this thread, it was crucial to resolving my problem.
    Last edited by watchsavant; June 12th, 2017 at 19:14.
    nauz likes this.

  7. #107
    Member nauz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    199

    Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

    Quote Originally Posted by watchsavant View Post
    I wanted to update the thread as promised. The new replacement tubes today arrived. The unit is now working properly again and not blowing fuses. Here I will summarize key lessons learned and add a few more notes:

    1) do not remove an ultrasonic cup while ultrasonic is running.
    2) if by accident you do remove a cup or start the ultrasonic without cups installed, there is a rocker bar-style safety mechanism I described in a few posts earlier that is designed to cut off power and protect the unit as I understand it. These rocker bars and the cutoff switch contact collect spilled fluid and can get sticky and gunked-up. If it does, it can prevent the safety mechanism from working. This mechanism can be easily reached from the bottom of the unit and can be cleaned. These units can be dangerous to handle, don't touch the capacitors for example, they hold a dangerous charge even if the unit is unplugged. If you are not experienced with electronics then I recommend you get help for keeping the unit cleaned up safely.
    3) if the unit fails to protect itself, the tubes can fail. One mode of failure has them pulling too much power and quickly blowing the fuse after a brief period of ultrasonic operation. If your fuse is blowing, consider replacing the tubes and safely cleaning the unit as the next course of action. Tubes are readily available on the famous auction site and inexpensive.
    4) new/additional note-- when I inspected the unit, I inspected the copper coils. There is paper-like tubing that is used to suspend the copper coil that sits between the magnets. This paper tubing is very important because the copper coil hitting the case can cause a problem. On mine, this tube/paper was improperly installed for the rinse receptacle. The paper wraps around the pillar support for the receptacle and each of its two arms should "hug" the coil above and below it, keeping it suspended in the receptacle so it doesn't drop. If you inspect anything around the coils, look for this item and also assure you reinstall it properly.
    5) finally, if inspecting the coils and removing the magnets, reinstall them so they share the same polarity as discussed in the posts just above this one. Also consider use of a kill-a-watt as described above by another poster-- a great suggestion-- to monitor current consumption when troubleshooting and his other tips and answers.
    Thanks again for this thread, it was crucial to resolving my problem.
    That's great advice, over the few years I've been messing with these I notice a large majority of issues arise from improper use of them. Mainly the fact people would allow Watch cleaning liquid to drop into the machine and not cleaning it.

    Now with the cups being inserted or out when on shouldn't matter. The floating bar that triggers (open, close)the switch to complete the circuit that sends voltage to the back of the tubes would be turned off (open) when the cups are out. When they are in the float gets pushed into the switch causing it to close. If your bar gets stuck then yes you'll get issues. The bottom of the cups is suppose to be a core and when fixated between the magnetic field it causes the core to vibrate ultrasonically. Sometimes the cups or the core of the cup are also in vary poor shape which will cause you to have bad ultrasonic. If you have any other question feel free to ask.
    Last edited by nauz; June 12th, 2017 at 21:18.

  8. #108
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    52

    Re: Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

    Thanks for your thoughts. It's almost impossible to avoid drips in these units when you use them regularly. Removing the parts container through almost any means stands a risk of a dripping and I for example go to great lengths to avoid drips including a draped rag on the grill and a process such as one Samantha once posted on using the extra cup to drain liquid. No matter what you do, there can be drips. I have seen machines with cleaner dripped all over the outside-- I agree that's misuse but in regular usage, the safety switch may collect cleaner and fail when needed. I would never remove a cup while ultrasonic is enabled for the cup, the safety switch has to function and if it doesn't, then one can only hope the problem was isolated to the tubes. Since my issue and in research, I have found at least one other person, a well known tool supplier and watchmaker himself, who advises himself and others to keep this safety switch clean.
    nauz likes this.

  9. #109
    Member nauz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    199

    Re: Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT

    Quote Originally Posted by watchsavant View Post
    Thanks for your thoughts. It's almost impossible to avoid drips in these units when you use them regularly. Removing the parts container through almost any means stands a risk of a dripping and I for example go to great lengths to avoid drips including a draped rag on the grill and a process such as one Samantha once posted on using the extra cup to drain liquid. No matter what you do, there can be drips. I have seen machines with cleaner dripped all over the outside-- I agree that's misuse but in regular usage, the safety switch may collect cleaner and fail when needed. I would never remove a cup while ultrasonic is enabled for the cup, the safety switch has to function and if it doesn't, then one can only hope the problem was isolated to the tubes. Since my issue and in research, I have found at least one other person, a well known tool supplier and watchmaker himself, who advises himself and others to keep this safety switch clean.
    Sorry about the late reply, I agree that the switch should be clean as well. Have you tried to shake the parts container then use a paper towel to hold under it while moving it should limit anything from dropping into the machine? This is what I do because then I've gotta open it and clean it out.

    Chris

Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. Ultrasonic Cleaner problem
      By mreke in forum Watchmaking
      Replies: 10
      Last Post: March 25th, 2014, 18:52
    2. Ultrasonic cleaner
      By Borg51 in forum Seiko & Citizen
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: March 9th, 2013, 04:32
    3. Ultrasonic cleaner UK only
      By AndyC in forum Public Forum
      Replies: 0
      Last Post: January 15th, 2009, 14:48
    4. Ultrasonic cleaner questions.....
      By SMITTY in forum Watchmaking
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: November 8th, 2008, 13:45

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •