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Thread: Open source timing software.

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  1. #71
    Member Halda's Avatar
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    I tried version 0.2.3 on Windows 10 Pro (version 1511) and it worked fine. The Microsoft LifeCam Cinema webcam picked up a signal after pressing the watch crystal against the microphone.

  2. #72
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Thank you for that great software.
    I've just bought a cheap piezo guitat pickup from ebay, plugged in my soundcard (esi maya44 pci), and it works. (win10 64bit)

    However I've a Horometer, that shows very similar results, but with ~25-30 degree lower amplitude.
    Can you modify beat error, to 2 digits?

    Did anyone try this, with co-axial? Sometimes it jumps to the place, and shows some amplitude (I don't know whether correct, or not), I added green arrow, to show that. But most time it looks out of sync.
    It is Omega 9300, the lift angle is 39.

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    9300 with amplitude:
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    5.5 yrs old Omega 1128 (2892-A2):
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    Longines L633 (2824-2)
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    Steinhart - ETA 2824-2

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    Last edited by WiZARD7; December 10th, 2015 at 21:31.
    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 ***

  3. #73
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Thank you all! I didn't forget this thread, I just have a deadline tomorrow...

    Wizard's observations are very interesting, I will find the time to share some info on Saturday, hopefully. May I ask you to check my amplitude also against some other software (so we know that the signal is precisely the same). For instance you could use Watch-O-Scope or biburo, tg should be able to run in parallel with both.

  4. #74
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by contrate_wheel View Post
    Wizard's observations are very interesting, I will find the time to share some info on Saturday, hopefully. May I ask you to check my amplitude also against some other software (so we know that the signal is precisely the same). For instance you could use Watch-O-Scope or biburo, tg should be able to run in parallel with both.
    I've tried W-O-S, but didn't give stable readings. Biburo didn't even found the signal/soundcard :(
    I'll try them more on weekend.

    The signal was the same, when I tried yesterday, as I've attached the piezo mic to the watch, and the Horometer to the crown at the same time.
    Maybe I'll also try to make some videos.

    (I'm also planning to make a diy mic amp, however I'm not sure it is needed, as I had fine results without it)

    If you need any other help, measurement, picture or video, just ask, I'd like to help you in the development in this great software ;)
    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 ***

  5. #75
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by WiZARD7 View Post
    I've tried W-O-S, but didn't give stable readings. Biburo didn't even found the signal/soundcard :(
    I've made some new test.
    Biburo is "working" fine, and maybe W-O-S will also work. But the signal level is too low for them. If I knock the mic with my hand, they show something.

    Your software is working very nice, with the weak signal.

    So I'll make an amplifier.
    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 ***

  6. #76
    Member masbret's Avatar
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Awesome software, I regret getting my timegrapher now!
    Thank you so much for doing this!
    My modest collection:
    Omega: 231.10.42.21.06.001
    , 2503.30, 2531.80, 3590.50, 2234.50, 3290.50, 2221.80
    Tissot: Le Locle , Tissot PRS516 Automatic, Tissot PRS516 Chrono Quartz, Tissot T-Touch
    Archer Aero II, Bulova precisionist, Duke mechancial, Scurfa Diver One

    "If you know what you're doing... It's not research..."

  7. #77
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    I'm back. Thank you all for participating to this thread!

    Windows 10 bug (@Klaus) I tried to make all the updates to my virtual machine, but still I can not reproduce the bug. If someone else is experiencing the crash under Windows 10 please let me know, so we can try and track down the cause.

    Amplitude (@Wizard)
    I would like to understand what causes the error of 25-30 deg in amplitude that you report. Let's look at your Omega 1128 screenshot, which is very clean.

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    Here tg is detecting a little less than 7ms between the first pulse and the third pulse, indicated by the blue line. The formula to compute the amplitude from this time is well known

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    and it gives us a little more than 284 degrees, which is consistent with tg's reading (considering that the other pulse was a few tenths of millisecond shorter). In conclusion, the Horometer device must be detecting a time between the first and the third pulse which is at least one half of a millisecond longer, so at least 7.5ms. I see that that device has a very complete waveform display mode, may I ask you to observe the waveform of the Horometer and try to figure out where this difference is comming from?

    Beat error digits (@Wizard) I believe that by "two digits" you mean adding the hundreths of milliseconds figure. Of course I could just print out that number, but it is basically a random digit: tg is just not capable of measuring beat error to that precision. I would argue, also, that it is not possible in general to measure beat error to the hundreth of a millisecond. Let me explain why. Beat error is given by the time between a tic and a toc (and a straightforward formula). Tics and tocs are not moments in time, they are indeed complicated sounds that take several milliseconds. So one needs to fix a reference point to say when in time a tic or a toc has happened. Geometrically the correct reference point is when the impulse jewel crosses the center line of the escapement. Unfortunately, there is no sound occurring at this precise moment, so we need to make do with some other, arbitrarily chosen, reference. As you can see from your screenshots, and the many others posted in this thread, the tics and tocs almost always differ by, say, one tenths of a millisecond in the relative position of their pulses. As a consequence any arbitrary reference point can not be expected to indicate the actual beat error to a better accuracy than about a tenth of a millisecond (just because choosing different references would produce indications that differ by about as much).

    Which reference is used in practice? Well, my impression is that the most popular is the beginning, namely the first pulse. The reason appears to be of convenience, because with traditional methods, if the sound is good, this choice gives the most stable result. Tg's approach is to use the whole waveform as a reference and not any particular point on it, this produces a result very similar to using the third pulse as a reference, because that's where the lion's share of the energy is.

    Coaxial (@Wizard) Tg's algorithm does not really work well with Daniel's coaxial escapement. In short: the rate is fine, the beat error is just an indication, the amplitude is garbage. Here is the problem: tg works under the assumption that the tics and the tocs have a similar waveform, which is of course not the case in coaxial escapements. The jumps that you see are tg trying to locate the third pulse of the waveform. Of course, we know that there is no such thing in a coaxial, but tg doesn't, so it gets confused and every now and then it changes it's mind about where the first and the third pulse are. Sometimes, tg might manage to convince itself that it is picking up a well defined first pulse and a well defined third pulse, so it displays a value of amplitude. The truth is that it is trying to understand a coaxial thinking that it is a lever, so whatever amplitude tg might show in this case has just no meaning at all.

  8. #78
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by contrate_wheel View Post
    Windows 10 bug (@Klaus)
    solved conflict with Avast Free Antivirus some kind of endless loop while program start
    TG is working perfectly again (Win10 ver.1511)

  9. #79
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    contrate_wheel: I've even made a diy amp for the microphone, to improve this thing.
    The biburo is not working for me, in windows10. It won't detect the beat, won't show any information, that can be used, although it can "hear" the watch.
    The W-O-S is "working" but very unreliable. When it works it also shows 10-30 degrees smaller amplitude, but it frequently looses the signal. I don't know what is its problem. There is also difference in the beat error, between TG and WOS. Also the daily rate is fluctuate a lot with WOS.
    Only the TG can lock on the signal reliable. ;)

    Now I can't check with the Horometer, as it would be a Christmas gift from my wife, so I'll be able to check things with it next week :D


    I've made 2 videos, where TG and WOS is working side-by-side, and managed to capture a timeframe, where WOS didn't loose the signal.
    The first video is with the microphone amplifier, the second is without it, only the guitar pickup plugged in to the soundcards MIC-in. You can hear the volume level difference also.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwK...ew?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwK...ew?usp=sharing
    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 ***

  10. #80
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    @Wizard7 cool idea making video-screencaptures.

    In my opinion there is a bit to much noise in your recording when you are using the amp (I made the same experience several times).
    TG is solving this issue with it's crazy good filtering algorythm. But in your first video one can see as well the noise in the graph.
    Biburo is not able to detect if it's a signal or if it's noise and has to surrender.

    Here some points how I get rid of the noise, depending where it's based:
    1. power supply: I first tryed a 5V wall power supply which produced a lot of 50Hz noise. So I switched over to a 9V battery (very effective)
    2. grounded shield: as shown in the first picture of the thread, about 15 centimetre length taken from an old coax-cable around the pickup-cable and as an extension the red cable which I can easily grab or even more comfortable just step on with my foot (very effective and you see the difference immediately grabbing it or let it hang loose)
    3. amplification (computer): give it a try to play with the amplification of the internal soundcard. For me +12dB and about 30% volume for soundrecording is comfortable (if the battery is getting weak I switch to higher amplification), drawback: higher values will amp as well the noise (basic)
    4. amplification (external amp): same as before, mine has two potentiometers (Conrad 197688
    one for amplification the other for load voltage) trimming those two potentiometers is very important for a good signal to noise ratio (basic)

    for both amplification methods I use biburo to adjust to a combination of good soundsignal and low noise level. Noise then is just a few millimetres (about 1/3 of the signalgraph see picture in post #19
    or even less when testing loud vintage watches)

    If you give it a try and at least modify 3 and 4 your biburo should work fine as well and you will be able to compare ratio, amplitude and repere/beat error of different timing programms.
    Very happy for any feedback and discussion.

    @contrate-wheel again many thanks for the TG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is the greatest Christmas gift for the low-budget hobbyist

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