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Thread: Open source timing software.

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  1. #81
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus Tickalot View Post
    In my opinion there is a bit to much noise in your recording when you are using the amp (I made the same experience several times).
    TG is solving this issue with it's crazy good filtering algorythm. But in your first video one can see as well the noise in the graph.
    Biburo is not able to detect if it's a signal or if it's noise and has to surrender.

    Here some points how I get rid of the noise, depending where it's based:
    1. power supply: I first tryed a 5V wall power supply which produced a lot of 50Hz noise. So I switched over to a 9V battery (very effective)
    2. grounded shield: as shown in the first picture of the thread, about 15 centimetre length taken from an old coax-cable around the pickup-cable and as an extension the red cable which I can easily grab or even more comfortable just step on with my foot (very effective and you see the difference immediately grabbing it or let it hang loose)
    3. amplification (computer): give it a try to play with the amplification of the internal soundcard. For me +12dB and about 30% volume for soundrecording is comfortable (if the battery is getting weak I switch to higher amplification), drawback: higher values will amp as well the noise (basic)
    4. amplification (external amp): same as before, mine has two potentiometers (Conrad 197688
    one for amplification the other for load voltage) trimming those two potentiometers is very important for a good signal to noise ratio (basic)

    for both amplification methods I use biburo to adjust to a combination of good soundsignal and low noise level. Noise then is just a few millimetres (about 1/3 of the signalgraph see picture in post #19
    or even less when testing loud vintage watches)

    If you give it a try and at least modify 3 and 4 your biburo should work fine as well and you will be able to compare ratio, amplitude and repere/beat error of different timing programms.
    Thanks.

    I'm running it from 9V battery.
    All cables are shielded, and the circuit is in a metal box, also connected to the shield.
    I'm not using any extra gain on computer side, I can only lower it from 0dB. (it doesn't help)
    Mine has 1 potentiometer, I've tried fine tuning with it, but didn't really help :( ( Building a Microphone Amplifier - Watch Timing System I've made this amp)
    (I'm not a pro in, so I don't know how to tweak it, I could just make the soldering, and PCB...)

    However it is sure, that TG has a really good noise filtering algorithm.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus Tickalot View Post

    @contrate-wheel again many thanks for the TG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is the greatest Christmas gift for the low-budget hobbyist
    Cheers to this statement! I've purchased three movements to begin my hobby...a NOS ETA 6498 (most $), a "used" 6498 (much less $), and a Seagull ST36 (6497 clone...least $). I can tell straight away that the NOS ETA6498 and the Seagull 6497 clone are in good shape although could use some regulation. The "used" 6498 has about 30-40 degrees less amplitude than the new 6498 and is -20 s/day dial up and -55 s/day dial down and 4 ms beat error in all positions so I can already tell it will need a service. I stumbled upon this thread before I even have tools (Christmas present from wife hopefully..lol) and I'm glad I did. It will be interesting to see the results I get when I'm X months down the road and do a full service on the used 6498. A great way to test my new skills.

    Anyway, thanks a million to contrate-wheel for the hard work! This is the PERFECT timing solution to the hobbyist looking to keep associated costs down. Tools are expensive enough without spending several hundred dollars on a timing machine. Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays to all!
    Last edited by adamant365; December 22nd, 2015 at 17:21.

  3. #83
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Hi all, sorry for not being very active lately...

    Amplifiers: I still have to experiment, so take what I write with a pinch of salt. In short, Klaus used the Conrad kit no. 197688, a schematic can be found here, and Wizard used the amplifier designed by Stefan Vorkoetter for Watch-O-Scope, instructions here. Judging only by the results and the schematics, so no first-hand experience for now, my advice is to go for the Conrad circuit.

    Why? Let's look at a spectrogram taken from a recording of Klaus

    Name:  spectrogram1.jpg
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    and compare it to one of Wizard's samples

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    On the vertical axis we have frequencies, on the horizontal axis we have time. Color represents intensity: from high to low is red, blue, gray. The vertical red streaks are the sounds of the watch (I zoomed in so the window is about one tic-toc wide). As one can see, in Wizard's sample there is no sound content at all above 11KHz. The W-O-S amplifier, in fact, is DESIGNED to filter everything above 11KHz quite aggressively. The instructions page says "to reduce high frequency background noise", however I disagree on this choice. It's enough to look at Klaus's spectrogram to see that the upper half of the spectrum is actually the cleanest, and it contains some very good signal. Klaus's sample also has much less noise. On a side note, unless clipping occurs, digital filters beat most hardware hands down, so, unless you have a compelling reason to filter in hardware, don't do it.

    About mains hum, it's definitely there in Wizard's audio.

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    And, what is worse, there are all odd-numbered harmonics of 50Hz up to 1050Hz. I don't know where it mght come from, but I don't see any obvious problem in the design of the amplifier. This noise should not affect much tg, because it filters out everything below 3KHz, however I used a rather bland filter. I believe that W-O-S filters this out too, don't know which kind of filter, but in the settings window you can configure the threshold. Biburo, unfortunately, might not have any band-pass filtering.

    Again, don't take this post to seriously, because I don't have first-hand experience. I promise to experiment and share some info in the future.

  4. #84
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    contrate_wheel: Your analysis is not perfect, maybe my recording is to blame.
    I've checked it with Audacity, and it is not cut at that much at 11K.
    But yes, there is the hum, I don't know why. It is in a metal box, connected to shield, I'm using shielded cables :( (if you have any idea, how to kill it, let me know)

    Maybe I'll try the conrad type, when I have time.

    Name:  audacity1.jpg
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    Name:  audacity2.jpg
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    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 *** Grand Seiko "Snowflake" - SGA211 ***

  5. #85
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Right, probably the sharp drop was caused also by the encoding/decoding. Anyway there is quite a difference between the bottom half and the upper half of your spectrogram, and this is most definitely a consequence of the filters in the amplifier (there are three of them). Anyway it should be easy to disable the low pass filters: you just have to remove C2, C4, and C6. It should not compromise the stability of the circuit: if Stefan is reading, can you confirm? To stay on the safe side, maybe first leave C2 in place.

    I have no idea about the hum. I would suspect a faulty ground connection, but I'm sure that you already tested this sort of things...

    On the positive side, as long as you use tg and probably W-O-S, I don't think that the hum will affect your results by much.

  6. #86
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by contrate_wheel View Post
    Right, probably the sharp drop was caused also by the encoding/decoding. Anyway there is quite a difference between the bottom half and the upper half of your spectrogram, and this is most definitely a consequence of the filters in the amplifier (there are three of them). Anyway it should be easy to disable the low pass filters: you just have to remove C2, C4, and C6. It should not compromise the stability of the circuit: if Stefan is reading, can you confirm? To stay on the safe side, maybe first leave C2 in place.

    I have no idea about the hum. I would suspect a faulty ground connection, but I'm sure that you already tested this sort of things...
    I've removed C4, C6. It can be seen in Audacity, that it works, the is not as sharp drop, as there was before.
    However there is a lot of noise in the higher frequencies, so in all it became worse, and even TG is not as stable as before, with this setup. :(
    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 *** Grand Seiko "Snowflake" - SGA211 ***

  7. #87
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    I'm trying to run the pre-built binary on windows7, and I get "Error opening audio input: Unanticipated host error". Just to see whether the system can find a microphone, I ran Skype, which works fine. How old are the prebuilts? The link does not give me any choices, and github doesn't seem to have them. I tried compatibility mode for XP SP2, but that doesn't help either. Trying to build under OS X just turned into a huge waste of time. (There seems to be something odd with the specification of the ffwt3 library.)

    Update: just having a microphone connected is not enough, it also has to be the default audio source. Windows 7 seems to work. I'll try Halda's OS X build next. Thanks for the quick reply!
    Last edited by LCheapo; December 31st, 2015 at 00:31.

  8. #88
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCheapo View Post
    Trying to build under OS X just turned into a huge waste of time. (There seems to be something odd with the specification of the ffwt3 library.)
    For OS X the instructions and binary here will work.

  9. #89
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    I've made a small video comparing TG and my Horometer.

    *** Omega Seamaster GMT - 2234.50.00 *** Omega Planet Ocean Chronograph - 215.30.46.51.03.001 *** Omega Speedmaster Professional "Moonwatch" - 3572.50.00 *** Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military MAXI - Limited Edition *** Seiko Marinemaster Professional - SBBN035 *** Grand Seiko "Snowflake" - SGA211 ***

  10. #90
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCheapo View Post
    Trying to build under OS X just turned into a huge waste of time. (There seems to be something odd with the specification of the ffwt3 library.)
    Did you use the homebrew version of fftw?

    If you install homebrew from Homebrew — The missing package manager for OS X then it should be as simple as a "brew install dmnc/horology/tg".

    If you still have problems, let me know which OS version you are on. All working ok for me here on 10.11.2.
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