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  1. #11
    Moderator Samantha's Avatar
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Hi,
    My process is similar to BG's. I run my cleaning cycles about 6 minutes (Watchmaster WT Mark II). I use a tool that would be easy to make a similar one (small wood dowel for the handle - mine is plastic - with a sewing needle mounted in it - the tip of the needle is bent about 45 degrees) to line up pivots. I use L&R solutions but have also used Zenith Drizebrite. A microscope is a must - continuous adjustable magnification is a plus that can go up to 30X minimum, 40 is better. One practice that we used at the Service Center - if the index wheel had residue on it after cleaning or there were still issues during phasing we would up the voltage to the high volt run, causing the index wheel to run faster. Using a very nice, soft camels hair artist brush, we would gently clean the index wheel with One Dip.
    Samantha
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  2. #12
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by BenchGuy View Post
    -Most folks need 40x minimum...at 20x you'll stuggle to see that the index/pawl stones are truly centered and square.
    -7 minutes, ultrasonic cleaner (Portescap Mark V). If you are using L&R 112/121 and lose a stone...it was probably going to leave, anyway. The index wheel depicted above required 12 minutes total to come clean. I am now using Zenith Drizbrite for the final rinse...it dries well and leaves no perceptible residue.
    -Buy a junk movement and use the mainplate and train bridge to hold your index wheels...
    -Use whatever method works for you on lining up the pivots, so long as you don't touch/damage the index wheel. On 218s I line everybody up and position the bridge...pivots almost never "drop in"...and there is often the issue of relatively "tight" alignment pins on the bridge. If you tilt the movement holder (I prop the end towards me on pithwood)...so as to see under the bridge, the arbors/pinions can be easily manipulated with a fine oiler pip. This is just what works for me...and it seems safer than continuously removing/replacing bridge...which is relatively massive in comparison to the train wheels and stands a chance of damaging something with each re-setting. Some folks "lock" the ss wheel with the hack...this holds it down against the friction spring...this method doesn't work for me due to the lateral pressure and resulting position on the upper pivot.

    Maybe Samatha can tell us how they were instructed at the Accutron SC?

    The free advice is worth what you pay for it...
    Again...this is just what works for me...
    To check the stones are square I tilt the movement holder sideways and look at the alignment (yes I'm sure the extra magnification helps). Sometimes the post is straight and the springs are crooked and need slight vertical alignment. If you ever had your head in the clouds and taken the tuning fork out without fully rotating the index and bent the spring you'll have to do this too.

    I use the hacking trick too and ever so slightly depress the wheel before hacking it. All the other wheels lay against it perfectly vertical and you can often drop (more like very gently place) the bridge on the very first try. Yes sometimes the lateral pressure moves it too much and nothing lines up. I've had one or two movements where nothing lines up hacking or not hacking or manipulating the pivots and had to try several bridges and wheels and plates to figure it out. This is frustrating. These can be the easiest or the most difficult movements to work on. I've also had movements with a warped or bent movement plate that prevents the fork from vibrating. Takes a lot of troubleshooting to come to this conclusion.

  3. #13
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Since my initial post I have now completed three 219 repairs . The last one was particularly frustrating.
    After hours of trying to get the pawl jewel to sit on the index wheel I discovered that the lift post was bent forwards . Nowhere have I read that this post could be bent so after much practice on a wrecked 218 I bent it back to the correct position . I then went through some trepidation in bending the pawl post using a screwdriver so that the jewel sat square.
    (gotta get a proper tool).
    After all that it would still not go and it was only checking everything off and studying the below photos I realized my mistake. Yep I put the index on upside down. How did I do that ??
    I must say the adrenaline gets going in bending posts with the fear of snapping them off.
    Thanks everyone
    Attached Images Attached Images




  4. #14
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    The index wheel needs implants...! If it were a deer, it would be dead...no teeth left. The index finger/jewel is on upside down...I guess that is what you meant. Stress limiter/gauge on pawl finger are incorrectly adjusted. Index finger/stress limiter/gauge are bent at the collet such that the force on the finger is torsional. The pawl finger is not straight...it is bent at the hack post...which might also have something to do with the hack not disengaging the finger. The pawl finger is also twisted...finger and limiter should be parallel to each other...they are not. Adjusting the hack mechanism is addressed in the 218 tech manual, figure 22. Adjusting the posts to square up the index/pawl fingers is addressed as well. Adjustment of hack mechanism, as well as indexing is fully discussed in the 219 Technical Bulletin. Reading the 219 Bulletin, there are enough references to 218, that it would appear that Bulova assumed folks working on the 219 were already familiar with 218 repair. It appears that you did a pretty good job of cleaning...although there appears to be contamination on the edge of the index jewel which is supposed to contact the index wheel and also on the gauge/limiter. It does not appear that the upper pivot jewel of the index wheel has been lubricated...although this could be an artifact of focus. Good imaging...what did you end up with in the way of a microscope?
    Regards, BG
    Last edited by BenchGuy; March 25th, 2017 at 13:39.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by BenchGuy View Post
    The index wheel needs implants...! If it were a deer, it would be dead...no teeth .
    Does look a bit that way but it goes . I will be changing wheel over with better one I have.

    The index finger/jewel is on upside down...I guess that is what you meant.
    Yes
    Stress limiter/gauge on pawl finger are incorrectly adjusted.
    These are the photos I took to try and work out why it would not go. The bending of the arm was me attempting to connect the jewel to the wheel.


    Index finger/stress limiter/gauge are bent at the collet such that the force on the finger is torsional.
    As well as on upside down
    The pawl finger is not straight...it is bent at the hack post...which might also have something to do with the hack not disengaging the finger. The pawl finger is also twisted...finger and limiter should be parallel to each other...they are not.
    Photo before fixing issues.
    Your observations are spot on.


    Adjusting the hack mechanism is addressed in the 218 tech manual, figure 22.
    Thanks totally missed.
    Adjusting the posts to square up the index/pawl fingers is addressed as well. Adjustment of hack mechanism, as well as indexing is fully discussed in the 219 Technical Bulletin. Reading the 219 Bulletin, there are enough references to 218, that it would appear that Bulova assumed folks working on the 219 were already familiar with 218 repair. It appears that you did a pretty good job of cleaning...although there appears to be contamination on the edge of the index jewel which is supposed to contact the index wheel and also on the gauge/limiter. It does not appear that the upper pivot jewel of the index wheel has been lubricated...although this could be an artifact of focus.
    You are correct ,had not yet lubricated
    Good imaging...what did you end up with in the way of a microscope?
    Thanks for your perseverance on telling me to get one. Makes things much easier.
    I could not focus with an actual microscope and manipulate at same time so ended up sending it back and using endoscope hooked up to laptop . Took a fair bit of mucking about to set it up with sufficient space for access to movement. Also find it very easy to manipulate focus and scan movement whilst watching on screen .

    Regards, BG
    Thanks

  6. #16
    Moderator Samantha's Avatar
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Additionally the pawl limiter is not adjusted properly - the gap is way to big.
    Samantha

  7. #17
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    You are quite correct Sam. The photos above were before I realized I had the index arm/collet upside down.
    Here is a photo as is currently and operating . I will replace the index wheel with this one and at the same time try and straighten out the arms .The pawl arm is a little twisted and not coming 90 degrees out of the collet. One question for yourself and BG. The pawl collet is very loose on the pin . Whats the trick in giving it a squeeze to tighten it a bit without snapping.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    The index/pawl finger shape is adjusted relative to the collet. They are positioned against the index wheel by rotating the collet. Works best for me to repair shape issues under the microscope with the entire assembly removed from its post. Much more forgiving since the assembly is not anchored by the mass of the entire movement. You have it running...but fingers don't look at all like "correct" images in the tech bulletin. Remove the fingers (by removing the collets from their respective posts). Use no 7 curved (non-magnetic...preferably dumont) tweezers (2 pairs) and an oiler (or similar) to correct the faults...keep working until they look exactly like images in the tech bulletin. The gauges are also stress limiters in the 219...they won't work as such as you currently have them shaped. Re-read the sections in 218/219 bulletins regarding index adjustments.
    Not picking on you here...congratulations...you have a real wreck running. Since it is already something of a wreck...this is great opportunity for you to improve your skills.
    Accutron endoscopy...novel...did you remove any polyps?
    Regards, BG
    Last edited by BenchGuy; March 26th, 2017 at 14:09.

  9. #19
    Moderator Samantha's Avatar
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Put the collet on a smoothing broach and slide it so it is a little loose on the broach, then gently squeeze it to tighten it. This will also prevent it from being closed too much. Please note that this takes a steady, gentle touch and a good pair of tweezers or a good, fine pair of pliers.
    Samantha

  10. #20
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    Re: Some basic Accutron Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by BenchGuy View Post
    The index/pawl finger shape is adjusted relative to the collet. They are positioned against the index wheel by rotating the collet. Works best for me to repair shape issues under the microscope with the entire assembly removed from its post. Much more forgiving since the assembly is not anchored by the mass of the entire movement. You have it running...but fingers don't look at all like "correct" images in the tech bulletin. Remove the fingers (by removing the collets from their respective posts). Use no 7 curved (non-magnetic...preferably dumont) tweezers (2 pairs) and an oiler (or similar) to correct the faults...keep working until they look exactly like images in the tech bulletin. The gauges are also stress limiters in the 219...they won't work as such as you currently have them shaped. Re-read the sections in 218/219 bulletins regarding index adjustments.
    Not picking on you here...congratulations...you have a real wreck running. Since it is already something of a wreck...this is great opportunity for you to improve your skills.
    Accutron endoscopy...novel...did you remove any polyps?
    Regards, BG
    Have been practising on a couple of jewel less assemblies in bending and straightening stress limiters .
    Will work on ok ones when confident. Say tomorrow.
    Ha did not see any although plenty of crud on index .My preparation was only fair.
    Takes a bit to watch screen and manipulate tools but hey if a surgeon can sit at a computer five metres away and perform major surgery anyone can (da vinci robotic )
    Last edited by Molliedooker; March 27th, 2017 at 08:36.

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