I as well ordered a le locle from ebay (chinese seller from hong kong) and I assume it a fake but I have not seen a single picture of a fake le locle on this thread. Are there in fact fake le locles? I have not seen proof positive at least for the le locles. Perhaps I am in denial but I was reassured a full refund if not happy as well as I have ebay and paypal protection.Do I stand a chance for the real deal?
Last edited by mitchb; July 4th, 2010 at 18:13.
Let me just say definitively that there are replicas of the Tissot Le Locle, and from scanning Taobao, it is probably one of the more common fakes, along with the Tissot PRC 200 chronograph.
As a public service, let me try to point out some of the more obvious things to look out for:
1. Look at the Guiloche pattern in the center of the dial. Compare the real dial:
to the fake:
Looking at the bottom right area of the Guiloche pattern, one sees that the last row of diamond shapes is more complete in the real dial, as compared to the fake dial. Looking at the line between the last, and next to last line of diamonds, and where it intersects the circle is also something to look at. On the real one, it intersects to the left of the V, and a bit to the left of center of the IIII.
In other examples of fakes, the Guiloche pattern is less distinct,
In the real one, the diamonds in the pattern are very distinct, irrespective of the viewing angle.
2. Now, look at the display caseback. The real caseback:
as compared to several fake casebacks:
Things to look out for include the exposed movement. In the ETA 2824-2, the balance wheel is at the top of the movement, and the one which is in the Tissot Le Locle appears to be sand blasted, with only a few gears that are gold plated. Look also at the auto winding rotor, the lettering on the real one is towards the outer edge of the annuluar region, and the inner area has Geneva stripes.
Look also at the Tissot and the 1853 on the back, it should have raised dots surrounding it, and the interior region of the other engravings (like, Le Locle, and Mechanique Automatique) are flat, and have a sandblasted or brushed look to them.
The last thing is to look at the ring of the caseback between the back of the lugs, where the bracelet connects to the watch head. There should not be a machined area to accommodate the bracelet. The following is a photo of the area between the back of the lugs from a real watch, to show how it should look.
3. This is a photo of a bare ETA 2824-2, to give an indication of where the distribution of the gears,
there are however near perfect chinese clones of the ETA 2824-2, most notably the Seagull ST24,
Let me just say in summary that these discrepancies will allow one to detect most of the existing replicas available at the moment, but the replica makers in China are continually improving their craft, so if you are at all unsure of the authenticity of your watch, you should authenticate your watch with your authorized Tissot dealer.
Last edited by mleok; July 4th, 2010 at 22:55.
There are also some photos from a listing on TaoBao, purporting to be a comparison between a real (真), and a fake (仿) Le Locle. This should be taken with a grain of salt, since the actual watch they are trying to sell does nevertheless appear to be a replica watch.
These two photos give a sense of how distinctive the Guilloche pattern should be:
This compares the ETA 2824-2 movement, and a chinese clone movement:
The authentic ETA 2824-2 has a bunch of engravings at the top (this photo appears to be reflected along the vertical axis):
Some comparisons of the caseback:
and the Solid Endlinks:
Additional photos can be found at:
Again, one needs to take these with a grain of salt, since it appears that in this particular item listing, the comparisons are intended to emphasize a set of comparisons which would suggest to the buyer that the watch offered for sale is authentic, but it seems to fail some of the other comparisons in my previous post.
There are many different replica variants, so just because your watch does not exhibit one of the discrepancies pointed out above, does not imply that it is authentic. When in doubt, have it authenticated at an authorized dealer.
The highest end replicas are sufficiently convincing that they would fool all but the most knowledgable and astute buyers, and quite possibly many jewelers as well, who are unaware of the level of craftsmanship that Chinese manufacturers are capable of. Look at the Seagull and Perpetual Watches websites to see the wonderful dial work that legitimate Chinese and Hong Kong watch manufacturers are capable of.
Last edited by mleok; July 4th, 2010 at 23:08.
great posts mleok, thanks
Tissot PRS516 Automatic T91.1.483.51
Tissot PRS516 Automatic T91.1.483.31
Tissot PRC200 Automatic T014.427.11.051.01
Tissot Veloci-T Chronograph T024.417.27.051.00
Stowa Marine Original Limited Edition 2 68/120
What a clever thing it would be for a Chinese peddler of replica items to post a "guide" in a Chinese site showing his fake merchandise to be the real deal, and the real deal to be the fake. Knowing that sooner or later some clever net researcher would find his "guide" and repost it in watch forums that discuss his lucrative ebay sales, he'd assure his sales increased.
One thing is certain - they're getting better all the time. I've little doubt that the merchants who are selling all of the ridiculously low priced watches in ebay are monitoring sites like this one and making adjustments to the manufacture of their product to correct all of the issues that are pointed out so laboriously as they are discovered.
Tissot prides itself on being a company that manufactures fine timepieces for sale at relatively low prices. They ARE good watches, and they ARE relatively low priced.
For my part I don't see how it can be that I'll remain able to detect a replica. My best defense is to buy only from an authorized dealer. The old saw that goes "If it seems too good to be true it almost always is not true" applies. Buying so-called authentic watches that are sold in bulk, ten pieces per auction, cannot be very good thinking. Tissot can't make them fast enough to supply ebay AND their dealers.
The fake watches received, however, are NOT that bad and they do look like the real thing. They'll usually keep good time too. So why worry over it continually? If you buy a Tissot for 25% it's MSRP - it's a replica Tissot. No need to tell your admiring friends.
The replica manufacturers are certainly rapidly approaching perfection in replicating the external features of Tissots like the PRC 200 and the Le Locle, and given that authentic movements like the ETA 2824-2 and ETA G10 can be had relatively cheaply, it would certainly be possible to produce replicas which would be practically indistinguishable from authentic watches.
I think hil is right in stating that one can reasonably assume that a Tissot purchased on eBay for a small fraction of the MSRP is likely to be a fake, and if it is absolutely imperative that you purchase an authentic watch, then it would probably be best to purchase directly from an authorized dealer. Do not delude yourself into thinking that replica Tissots do not exist, they most definitely do.
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)