What to consider when buying a watch on ebay... *please let this be the final word* ;)

[djkj6]

I just posted this as an answer to another OP, but I thought it was good enough the report as a topic of it's own. If all you want is validation that you are the chosen one, and are not getting scammed buying a $400 watch on ebay for $79, then keep searching until you find the post that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. but please don't come back and reference that 1 posting as your proof that you are getting your Gen for "one hell of a deal!" If you want accurate information, and helpful insights to avoid becoming one of the hundreds of posters on any multitude of boards, then by all means keep reading. I truly hope this can help some of the people just getting into the wonderful world of watchs!!! lol

Being a Fraud Investigator here is Florida, and getting into Forensic Accounting has really opened my eyes to the wiley ways in which people will "bend" the rules to make a buck. Never mentioning "genuine in the description, or calling the product by number instead of name, all the way to blatantly stating that they are an AD and have an additional 4 year warranty after the manufacturers initial 2 year warranty. (Unfortunately, your feedback and retribution are long past when the watch breaks and you try to use that little piece of laminated paper to save your investment...)

There are several things to consider when making a purchase;

1. Check the feedback... these sellers work in unison, meaning each will establish multiple accounts and purchase each others items to start, they will all leave positive feedback for one another (possibly even for their own accounts from dummy ones) with no actual money changing hands. (consider this initial investment start-up costs).

2. if this seems like "too long" of a period for a scammer to wait, then brush up on how scams work, and why "skimming" and white collar crime are so hard to track. (hint: it's because they occur over extended time periods) if they can spend $500 in ebay fees for items sold, and sell 10 $50 watches for $150, then they just profited $1000! That's a 200% mark up. ANY STORE IN THE WORLD WOULD KILL THERE GRANDMA FOR A 200% MARKUP. ( don't forget, ebay is a world marketplace, $10,000 out of pocket can net you $1,000,000 if you are clever enough... selling a million .99 cent items makes you $990,000.00... makes you think twice about those stupid little pokey balls you get your kids at the Wal-Mart checkout each time you go...LOL )

3. many of those purchasing the watch expect it to be a fake. therefore positive feedback is a plus for them and the seller. "arrived as expected..." can mean a variety of things. If I need a beater, and I have an AD purchased Balade, a rep is fine for me...If I get mugged (God forbid), or snag it and break it, then it is no huge loss to me... I have reps and gens, I know. Sometimes they are really hard to tell apart...

4. many who buy them as gifts don't know enough or care enough to check if it's real. {Example} "Son gets watch for graduation...Watch runs and tells time, even chronos work...Son is happy and only replaces battery when it dies at the mall kiosk...watch eventually breaks and is thrown away...Watch goes to watch heaven, but can't get in due it being a rep!" No one back on earth knows about St. Peter and the Heavenly Customs Service steamrolling the watches in front of the pearly gates...

5. The amount of work one would think that "must go into making such a detailed and accurate rep..." is surprisingly low. In Hong Kong Market, You can get an Omega Planet Ocean (UPO) rep that would fool many for about $50, adding some gen hands and a gen bezel insert and dial would leave you with a watch that could pass a field test at an AD and only be $650 into it...Only when an AD "pops the hood" would the gig be up... (Even as we speak there are Omegas up on the Bay that are reps, and are being bid on at over $1600.00... some are as easy to spot as the happy feet logo) *sadly enough, even the best movement Tissot currently uses, the ETA 2836-3 HighBeat is available through Ofrei for only a little more the $200 (less in bulk), a little tinkering skill and someone can throw together a watch that could slip past even an AD smith doing some menial task, Quartz movements are FAR CHEAPER!!!* **The cases on reps and gens are nearly identical, 316L vs 904 vs surgical stainless??? I am no mineralogist, and I rarely carry my metallic test kit with me. ;)

6. NO INTERNET RETAILER IS AN AUTHORIZED TISSOT DEALER, not even Jomashop.com. their warranties are through their stores, not Tissot. again, go to the source, check Tissot's website... These are all "grey market" dealers...that is not to say they sell fakes, just they are not Officially recognized by trhe Swatch Group as Tissot Dealers... But don't take my word for it, better yet, contact customer service at tissotonlinestore@swatchgroup.com or call 1-866-462-0050 from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. EST. Tissot AD's go through a pretty strict QC check to be put on that list you can select from on Tissot's website. NO ONLINE DEALER IS LISTED... (Tissot has an online storefront, accessible from their site which sells certain watches, but not all, and the site is the official tissot store because you are ordering from the Swatch distribution warehouse.) When in Doubt, ask the source! Those warranty cards mean zip, zero, nada if not signed and stamped by an AD that is in Tissot's system. A hard lesson to learn when Tissot doesn't return your watch because you sent them a counterfeit.
***I believe this was touched on in another posting here***

7. There is an entire subculture devoted to replicas and rep collecting, this is not a "small business" these Chinese distributors are in. An a21j automatic movement that beats at 21,600 runs less then $20 per unit, and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference with the naked, untrained eye. a7750 or a21j high beats are 28,800 just like Gen ETA movements, so from the sweep they are IMPOSSIBLE to tell any difference. and a whopping $30...

8. Finally, If your intent is to try your luck and order one anyway. then just do it! by posting and reposting, trying to justify your purchase until you finally find another internet warrior who validates your existence by metaphorically patting you on the back saying, "Atta Boy Lad, Great deal you got there! You are a winner!" is definitely not the route to go. If you have already made up your mind, just buy it. If you want honest opinions, and you search the forums, 90% of the posts are going to tell you to save a bit and buy from an AD, or check the for sale forums and buy from trusted members with feedback from other people you can actually email, and talk with, and ask them face to face about the quality of the product they received...
*Even a crappy dealer has to send out a few good watches from time to time!!!*

In Conclusion, it's your money so buy what you like. If you search long enough you will find some post, some where, that validates your purchase... If it is imperative that you have a Genuine Tissot, then only an AD can provide you with instant piece of mind! *Ask to see the movement of your newly acquired watch, and learn to tell the difference for yourself! (great tutorials can be found here, here, and here and also here... Also, ask that the seller take a photo of the watch and movement with a personalized note of your choice written on a napkin next to it. that would at least prove he has that particular watch in hand. The end decision is up to you! Be happy with your purchase, you have to live with it!!! Cheers!
-AC


A great signature line from a legend over on WRI states;
"Someone will assume your Gen is a Fake before they assume your Fake is a Gen... If they care at all..."

[JohnnyMonkey]

Interesting read and very usefull.........thanks for posting

Most of it is common sense, and a bit of knowledge, but there'll always be someone who'll be caught.....usually thru trying to save a few too many ££/$$'s somewhere

Maybe we can get Lee to make this a 'sticky' and point the 'Is my watch a fake' posters towards it?!!

[leewmeister]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I'll make it a sticky per JM's suggestion.

[mleok]

For reference, these posts provide some comparisons of real and replica Tissot watches.

Tissot Le Locle

How to spot a fake Tissot

How to spot a fake Tissot

Tissot PRC200

How to spot a fake Tissot

[FineQualityWatches]

As a general rule, you should never buy watches on Ebay. They are priced too high when it's listed as "Buy it Now." And in a basic bid, people who don't know how to value a watch will push the price much higher than is warranted.

[bcgator]

As a general rule, you should never buy watches on Ebay. They are priced too high when it's listed as "Buy it Now." And in a basic bid, people who don't know how to value a watch will push the price much higher than is warranted.

While obviously there are situations where its best to work through your local AD (such as if you desire a warranty, or wish to have a long-term relationship with an AD, just to name 2), I think it is myopic to entirely rule out eBay as a sourcing channel for timepieces. It goes without saying that there are plenty of people who bought their watches new from ADs, then wish to upgrade, so they sell them on eBay. Should there not be a market for these items? Yes, buyers should do their homework and know what the market is for an item, and its average pricing, but ruling out eBay as a way to build a collection seems terribly myopic to me. There are 180 million users on eBay - I'm sure nobody is suggesting they are all scam artists.

[Ridiculous]

I will give a brief overview of my two-year-search of a super cheap Le Locle, which I posted in yet another "is this fake" thread. First of all, not to seem as a hypocrite, I would like to thank all of You older helpful members (Leewmeister, JohnnyMonkey, etc.) for taking the time to reply nicely and thoroughly to us "bargain hunters" over the years!

Let me say that I have kept my eye on these Chinese, Malaysian and Indian Le Locles on ebay for almost two years. THERE HAVE BEEN NO ORIGINAL ITEMS! This is the sad truth. I have contacted the sellers countless times to ask for their AD (Authorized Dealer), but none have managed to produce me with a real AD name. Also I have taken pictures in my local AD and compared them to the ebay pictures. They are all off! If You search this forum, You will get a very good idea about what to compare.

The newer but even greater danger are the US and European sellers, who have been scammed by the Chinese and now want to get rid of their fake watches. They will offer the ("hardly used") watch for the price not very much cheaper than the market value. And as people will generally rather trust sellers from the Western world, the fakes circle around.

Also a new trend (mainly from Malaysia) is to offer used Le Locle-s. They play on the psychological effect that people tend to less doubt the aunthenticity of used watches. Also if they offer a used watch for 200 dollars or so, it seems as a "good price" not a "suspiciously great" price. So all in all You get a new fake watch which is advertised as slighlty used.

So, as so many before me, I have travelled the whole path by myself (Posting topics about ebay Le Locles on this forum, studying all the other threads, keeping an eye on the different items on ebay, reading the feedback of the sellers, contacting them and comparing the pictures to the original). Even though older members have warned me and other bargain seeking users, I always thought that maybe, just maybe, there is a super cheap original on ebay for me...

There wasn't! So this December I saw that my local AD had a sale and I managed to get the Le Locle on a bracelet for a very good price. But even if there hadn't been a sale, I was already determined to buy my Le Locle from there, because the thing is that there really aren't super cheap Le Locles out there!

And by the way: those of You who think that in China the AD-s sells the watch for a much better price, it isn't so. For example the AD prices there are bigger than in my home country Estonia (European Union).

So, perhaps this is useful for somebody who thinks just like I used to: that perhaps I can find an unbelieavable deal from ebay. Be smarter than me and save Yourself the time and don't overload the forum with the "is this fake" threads (I have contributed to this littering myself. Just use the search ).

PS: As many users think that such posts ("Buy only from AD-s") are only posted by people who have their own financial interests vested in such suggestions, I hereby confirm that I am in no way related to any AD-s. I believe this also shows from the previous text.

[Drfp]

OK so I posted pics and asked if real, so I was wrong to do so? What can we talk about? Only once bought? Hmm I thought the idea was to share knowledge not laugh at some poor person who could not ask if it was legit before they bought.........

[Bobby75]

Much of it is comon sense it also relies upon the greed of the buyer (I mean seriously, a 500 pounds watch going for 100 pounds and advertised as new!) If you are going for a Tissot they are not overly expensive and even amazon do good deals for them. Reputable seller and you have a cast iron guarentee if its fake, broken etc..... Most of the Tissot watches I have seen on ebay are going for not much less than you would pay in your local jewelers or amazon so why bother taking the risk when you can get the real deal?

[JCCR]

Much of it is comon sense it also relies upon the greed of the buyer (I mean seriously, a 500 pounds watch going for 100 pounds and advertised as new!) If you are going for a Tissot they are not overly expensive and even amazon do good deals for them. Reputable seller and you have a cast iron guarentee if its fake, broken etc..... Most of the Tissot watches I have seen on ebay are going for not much less than you would pay in your local jewelers or amazon so why bother taking the risk when you can get the real deal?

+1