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Pilot's watches: Necessity vs. Desirability?

7K views 49 replies 25 participants last post by  OldBoldPilot 
#1 ·
Hi all- I'm sure this question has been asked here a million times, but I haven't found through the search engine a thread that seems specifically to address this issue so I thought I'd run it up the flagpole. For those among you who are pilots (although any thoughts and opinions are of interest) I'm curious to hear whether you regard a purpose built pilot's watch as a necessity in the cockpit, and if so what features you'd look for and/or what watch you'd actually use.

I just had a long phone conversation with a friend who's a longtime pilot (qualified to fly multi-engine aircraft, IFR, has dealt with in-flight emergencies such as loss of both generators during flight, etc. etc.) and what he basically said was that given the number of timers in a modern cockpit, with the number of backup systems available, the likelihood of a total instrumentation failure resulting in a real need for a watch was very small, in his opinion, and that even among pilots ownership of a pilot's watch was motivated more by the desirability of a watch as such, than by any real pragmatic necessity for a watch.

Opinions and thoughts? Very curious to hear everyone's views. I know many/most pilots wear a watch on a regular basis but I'm specifically interested to know to what degree any aviators here would regard one as a real operational necessity. I've run across an article archived on the web from 1918 that talks about an eight day cockpit clock as a standard cockpit instrument, so clearly, cockpit timers have been around for a while and have co-existed with aviator's watches, so the issue doesn't seem to be as simple as, presence of a cockpit timer=no need for a backup. Or is it? :-s

Thanks in advance,

Jack
 
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#2 ·
Oh c'mon I know it's hairsplitting but some of you guys must have an opinion ;) I'm not talking about a watch that's "helpful" to have or that's a good travel watch (a distinction many of you guys who are professional civilian and military pilots have drawn in the past) I'm just curious to know if anyone regards a "pilot's watch" or a watch in the cockpit at all as a necessity (and you can spin the term any way you like.) I know the answer will vary depending on your cockpit environment; so address that as well if you like.

JF
 
#3 ·
When I was learning to fly many moons ago, I thought a Breitling Navitimer would have been the perfect watch. However, between buying that nice pilot's watch and actually paying for the flying lessons, I took the flying lessons ;-)

I did get a Seiko with the circular slide rule - and I even knew how to use it. However, trying to use that tiny thing while flying just didn't work - it was much too small to use. The full sized E6B was much more useful and I doubt I ever used the watch's slide rule while actually flying.

I haven't flown in a few years now, but if I were to start flying again I would wear my largest, most legible watch. My 48 mm Debaufre Nav B-Uhr LE would be right up there as it is a Flieger after all ;-) I'm sure there are plenty of clocks and timers already in the cockpit, so it's really only a backup if everything else fails. I'd just want good lume and something that was easy to read at a glance. A watch with a GMT hand could be useful, although since I never flew through time zones I could always keep track of the GMT myself. However, if I did a lot of flying through times something that could easily keep track of three time zones could be helpful (home time, GMT and a rotating bezel for the third time zone)
 
#11 ·
Hi Crusader, thanks for your answer! I've read quite a few archived threads, and the key point I'm interested in, which is whether or not any of you aviators actually feel a pilot's watch is a necessity in your work environment, even as a worst-case backup, is surprisingly little addressed; there are a fair few threads that ask what watches forumers who are pilots wear, but almost no addressing as far as I've been able to find of whether or not professional flyers -military, civilian, search and rescue, or what have you -think a "pilot's watch" is an essential bit of kit in the cockpit. An interesting ancillary to the question is, of course, under what circumstances -a catastrophic total instrument failure, for instance -would you actually need a pilot's watch (or any kind of watch?) How many other systems would have to go south, in a modern aircraft with a reasonably up to date instrument set and avionics, for you to actually need a wristwatch as a backup?

My impression is that you would have to lose all onboard generators, and somehow your battery and any dashboard mechanical backup instruments would have to fail as well, before you'd need a watch as a genuine necessity. . . would be interested to hear from you actual flyers what you would have to lose and how unlikely you think it is before you'd say, "Oh, thank God, I've got my flyback GMT mechanical chronograph" ;) .

Mind you, the Apollo crew seem to have been glad of their Speedmasters, so clearly, as a pilot friend of mine has said, ":-x:-x:-x:-x happens up there" but I'd like to hear from the pros what the likely scenarios are.

Cheers,

Jack
 
#5 ·
OK, I'll jump into the fray here.

You do not need a watch in the cockpit. You certainly do not need to spend large amounts of money for what amounts to nothing more than a piece of jewelry that happens to keep somewhat reasonably accurate time on your wrist (at least you hope that is what it does).

Yes, for some it may be a status symbol and that is fine; that goes to your question of desirability. But as for necessity, it simply is not required.

I have noticed quite often how most folks now use their cell phones to view the time, or to correct the time on their mechanical watches.

In all the years I have been fortunate enough to be involved in aviation, the best watch was always the most basic, most reliable and affordable. And I say this after spending way too much money on "fancy pilot's watches"

Hope that answers your question.
 
#6 ·
I agree with Curtis - NO

In all the years I have been fortunate enough to be involved in aviation, the best watch was always the most basic, most reliable and affordable. And I say this after spending way too much money on "fancy pilot's watches"/quote]

I have zero years in aviation, but my son flies a lear35 air ambulance. I should ask him sometime what his thoughts are.

I think I would fully agree with Curtis. I might slightly disagree with "too much money" as I doubt there is ever too much money ever spent on a nice pilot or military watch - sometimes they are just sooo very nice and desirable. Food on the table always comes first, but I really enjoy my Dodane Type 21 and Mathey-Tissot type 12 panel clock - both with retour en vol flyback - the retour en vol function is just so fascinating - but essentially useless in real life. Some other pilot here can explain why/when the true flyback function is a nice feature. Also, explain why the lost second or two using a typical stop-reset-start type of watch/panel clock would be essentially harmful in running the cockpit.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Here's my take on it. There are many different types of flying such as general aviation, corporate, military, airline, etc. and the answer to your question might vary with the type of flying which a person does. I happen to fly for a U.S. airline and with regards to this type of flying I don't think a "pilot's watch" is all that essential to have. I currently fly an Airbus, but I have also flown Boeing products as well, and all these aircraft have time displayed by the onboard clocks as well as the Flight Management System (FMS), the EHSI, and ACARS. Most pilots that I fly with don't even wear a "pilot's watch" in the classic sense. As a matter of fact, the last mechanical watch that I noticed while flying was about four months or so ago...the guy was wearing a Fortis. What I notice most are Casio, Citizen, and Seiko products in the cockpit. You might get a different answer from people who fly in a different category, such as general aviation, but I think if an aircraft has a glass cockpit, FMS, etc. the usefulness of a "pilot's watch" has definitely diminished in this type of setting.
 
#8 ·
I know that my watch is way more accurate than my cell phone.

plus, flying with a Breitling Emergency makes a lot of sense to me. even without all of the watch related features.

people are different. do you need to wear a diver's watch diving? no.

but i'm amazed that people can walk out of their homes at all, and not wear a watch.
 
#9 ·
I recently began to travel internationally on business, and I can certainly see the desirability of many so-called "pilot's watches" as travel watches. Many of them are robust, clean designs with the ability to tell the time in different timezones, time events, and so on. And I have noticed in many of the threads I've looked through on this forum that there's actually a distinction drawn between a watch that's useful for a pilot to have as a traveller and one that you might actually need in the cockpit; it's an interesting distinction and it's the gap between desirability and necessity that I'm interested in; thanks for your answer!

JF
 
#10 ·
Gentlemen I refer you to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. To claim anything as a business expense against tax it must be 'wholly, necessarily and exclusively used in the performance of your duties'. (Commercial)Pilots can apply for a sizeable 'fixed rate expense' against their income and the notes on it say that it covers all manner of things (including sunglasses I think!) but the instructions specifically (and quite amusingly for me) say that watches are NOT an allowable expense!

So there you go, from the people that went to court over whether a Jaffa Cake was a cake or a biscuit (it's a cake apparently), the definitive answer! :-d
 
#14 ·
Ha, that's HYSTERICAL, as usual the taxman knows best. . .

Gentlemen I refer you to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. To claim anything as a business expense against tax it must be 'wholly, necessarily and exclusively used in the performance of your duties'. (Commercial)Pilots can apply for a sizeable 'fixed rate expense' against their income and the notes on it say that it covers all manner of things (including sunglasses I think!) but the instructions specifically (and quite amusingly for me) say that watches are NOT an allowable expense!

So there you go, from the people that went to court over whether a Jaffa Cake was a cake or a biscuit (it's a cake apparently), the definitive answer! :-d
Hahaha, one always wonders what or who is the definitive authority in these situations, and if HMR and C says that wristwatches are NOT an allowable expense for pilots inasumuch as they are not "wholly, necessarily, and exclusively used in the performance of your duties" I think that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin.

Not that I still wouldn't like to hear from the pros among you who feel, HMR and C be damned, a good watch is still a critical backup piece of kit if all your other systems go south.

I guess that's what I'm really getting at- I mean, we all know that the average modern cockpit has timers galore, but what would have to fail, and do you think it's a plausible enough scenario, for you to regard a "pilot's watch" as an essential backup? And if you WERE, god forbid, in need of landing your triple seven with nothing more than the eyeballs god gave you and your trusty wristwatch, what, beyond keeping time well, would you need?

JF
 
#13 ·
Yes, that's what I'd like to hear. . .

. . . what I've sort of gleaned from talking to acquaintances who are pilots is that a flyback function might be helpful if flying waypoints or flying a holding pattern- but again, in a modern cockpit, you'd need a fairly catastrophic instrument failure before you'd need your watch. And even then, wouldn't you just be prioritized by ground control ahead of any other traffic and be heading in on the standard approach, holding patterns be damned?

Please educate me you guys :) .

Jack
 
#16 ·
My father works on military aircraft, from what he's told me. It's impossible to fly a jet without the computer, they travel too fast. I doubt a bretling navitimer would be any help at all in a emergency. The human brain just can't calculate fast enough.

But there are other things chronographs are usefull for, like calculating how long it takes you to clear a runway. Or to time how long the fueling trucks take to fuel you. etc
 
#17 · (Edited)
I guess it really depends on what and how you fly - and your personal philosophy about emergency back-ups.

Flying: for VFR flying I only use my watch, have never used the ones in the a/c (IF there was one; small GA and microlights come with pretty basic instruments...). Necessity? For me: yes, absolutely!

Back-up: since GA does not require double or triple back-up as in airliners... for me (again) the answer is "yes", a watch is a necessity - but then it's my philosophy to have a back-up radio with me. Next step will be a back-up GPS. I just can not rule out the possibility that one day I will loose one or more of the on-bord systems. It's just like diving - no one really needs a dive watch any more, today it's all dive computers. But they can fail, too, so I keep on wearing not only a dive watch, but one with a built-in depth-gauge.

Jörg

Edit: you might want to check one thread I started once about HOW pilots use there watches...
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=90075
 
#18 ·
Hi all,
I'm much like Jorg. I'm a professional helicopter pilot flying emergency medical and we don't have a clock on board (well, we do, but that display is usually on volts, outside air temp, and chronograph, anything but the time). I need a watch to record takeoff and landing times. To that extent, a wristwatch, any wristwatch, is vital to my work.

We need to check weather constantly, looking at prognostics and converting those Zulu times to local. A GMT watch or two-timezone 24 hour watch (like a Glycine Airman) is very very helpful for me. In other words, in my slow helo (140 knots) instead of using one of these watches while zooming through timezones, I use it to convert future times (prognostics) into local.

The cool down is anywhere from 30 seconds to two minutes depending on the helo, and I've used sweep seconds hand and chronographs for this in the past.

To put it simply, my kind of light helo flying is more where airplane flying was thirty years ago before all the computers. That's one reason I enjoy it so :).
 
#24 ·
Very cogent answers all. I've been flying for 40+yrs and have time in everything from an ultralight to four engine turbines. When I learned to fly in the 60's a pilot's watch had to have chronograph function to determine your groundspeed.Another useful function was GMT as that's the international standard of time. As someone else's post said, modern cockpits have duplicate countdown and up timers and GPS systems so they make a wristwatch just about obsolete now.

Now I'd say a good pilot's watch is simply a large easily read tool type watch that can be easily read in all light conditions. The GMT function is still handy. Ball makes a perfect one IMHO.
 
#25 ·
Welcome to the forum Nimbushopper - good to hear your thoughts. Anyone that has been flying for 40+ years ought to have a good idea of what they like in a 'pilot' watch!

Which Ball watch in particular are you referring to? Be interesting to see it.
 
#27 ·
Well, unlike Whifferdill, I fly a desk, not a helicopter for work; I spend a lot of time in meetings (quite a few of which I chair) so, like him, I want a nice clear display I can read at a glance. A chronograph also comes in handy for timing a speaker's allotted time (including my own). On those occasions I manage to get out of the office and into an aeroplane, where I'm sitting in seat 23A and travelling across time zones, a chronograph is handy but a quickset hour hand and a true GMT hand is most useful.

However, like Whifferdill, I also fly a small, cramped aerobatic plane with limited instrumentation (and no clock or cockpit timer). One of the (ex RAAF) instructors who flies the same plane manages fine with a simple quartz seiko, and to be honest, that really does fine 98% of the time. The key thing in the cockpit is legibility and reliability. But I do like to time flight events, even if I'm staying within 10nm of the airfield - brakes off to 2000' is a favourite, BTW - it should take less than a minute. For cross-country navigation, a timer of some sort - bezel or chrono - simplifies calculations. And the aircraft type in question doesn't fly hands-off, so any complicated features, such as E6B slide rules, are a complete waste of time, IMO. But a nice clear display, and a nice clear chronograph, helps do the job very nicely.

Both my Fortis B-42 GMT, which also displays Zulu time - handy for ATC reports and checking the weather - and my Revue Thommen Airspeed Chronograph with the Lemania 5100 movement fit the bill. The RT has a count-down bezel (handy for ETA tracking) and a better chrono display with the centre minute hand, which is easier to read at a glance. It's also available new in a quartz version with the ETA 251.262 (the blue dial version on the right).


The Fortis has slightly clearer permanent hour and minute hands - but the style of both watches emulates that of cockpit instruments - which are of course designed for legibility.

And the other feature that gets my vote? Water-resistance! I spend more time in the pool than in the cockpit, most weeks.:-(

 
#28 · (Edited)
My God, what am I doing wrong?!? I'm an offshore pilot in a medium twin IFR helicopter like Whifferdill and a former EMS pilot like Dennis yet I can barely afford a couple of cheap Seikos!

O.K. I admit to a fetish for Seiko automatics -I just ordered a modded Monster from Yobokies and am just about turning purple waiting for it to be put together...

To answer your question, and to reiterate what many others here have said before: there are plenty of clocks sprinkled throughout the instrument panel -you really don't need a watch at all.

Having said that, it's useful to me to have a GMT watch when planning a flight in order to quickly convert Zulu time to local when reading weather reports and forecasts.
 
#30 ·
My Son passed his "Private Pilots" in 1986 and we bought him a "Citizen Wingman" for a gift, then when he became Captain at US Air years later we bought him a Citizen Skyhawk.....This pass Xmas we bought him a Traser Commander Ti and he said it is the most perfect watch he's ever worn and the (Tritium is awesome). He loves that it's not all cluttered with stuff he will never use...
He's a Captain for "CitationShares" at t his time and fly's the >. CITATION SOVEREIGN
 
#31 ·
Hi all guys :)
Sorry for being "absent" for a while, it´s very nice to "see" you again, specially to my "old friends and rotor head fellows" - Ian and Dennis ;-)

Martin, it´s also a pleasure to read you, and it´s a pittty but I´m not in the police force anymore, altough my ex-police partners - but yet friends - are already in Germany in order to do the EC-135 trainning course. I´d travelled with them, but I´ve left the force before :-(
It would have been very nice to met you there, but now I´m in the "off-shore" industry and may be we are going to France this year to our annual simulator training.

Sorry for being late to this thread, but as an off-shore helicopter pilot, this is my modest opinnion. Please read this:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=246680

Cheers !!! :-!
Dan
 
#46 ·
Hi all guys :)
Sorry for being "absent" for a while, it´s very nice to "see" you again, specially to my "old friends and rotor head fellows" - Ian and Dennis ;-)

It would have been very nice to met you there, but now I´m in the "off-shore" industry and may be we are going to France this year to our annual simulator training.

Cheers !!! :-!
Dan
Hey Dan

Good to see you back.

When are you going to France? I assume you're going to the Eurocopter facility? I Might see you there!
 
#33 ·
From the military side of the house.....

I've done a bit of flying in light/small civilian aircraft and, as the others have stated, a watch was quite important for way points, ATC, fuel burn, etc.

However, as a military pilot by the time you get your flight suit sleeves velcroed down, your gloves on, parachute, survival vest and gear, helmet, knife, and cram yourself into a small tight metal and webbing cockpit, I'll be damned if I'm going to be able to somehow pull my gloves down and my sleeve up while not dropping my pen, chart, EPs list, or one of 2 kneeboards to check my watch.

I am of the opinion, that the watch is used more before the flight with respect to flight planning and coordination than during the actual flight.

Anyways, thats just my two cents, and I'm just getting started with this facet of my military training, so maybe in a decade my views will change.

Enjoy your weekend all.

~michael
 
#35 ·
I've flown F-4s, T-38s, numerous civil aviation birds, gliders, ultra-lights, hang gliders, and paragliders. Though I think a quality mechanical watch is a necessity, I suspect it's more likely just an old school thing. Man jewelry comes to mind.

While flying paragliders, the slowest and most low-tech flying thing out there, I use a GPS and inter-linked variometer that displays and records multiple time functions, rate of climb, altitude, direction, air speed, ground speed, location, vertical speed, etc.

Even when I climb mountains to fly off and leave almost everything (including the reserve) behind to save weight, I still use a Suunto X6-hr. The Suunto provides pressure, altitude, rate of climb/descent, direction, heart rate, and of course various time/date functions. The heart rate function is like having a personal tachometer.

I can remember only one time in 40+ years of flying that a watch came in handy. It was during a trip from Phoenix (PHX) to North Las Vegas (VGT) back when aircraft had steam gages. Just after signing off with departure control all the electrical instruments went dead and smoke started coming out from behind the instrument panel. I made an emergency landing at a little strip just north of Phoenix near Deer Valley. The mechanics from the local FBO determined the master switch had melted down, but the plane was still airworthy. So after a short talk with the guys (FAA) in the tower, I decided to continue the flight on to Vegas (about 300 miles). Though I still had the non-electrical instruments (direction, air speed, & attitude indicator), I had to rely on my good old Submariner to determine fight time, ground speed, headwind, fuel consumption, eta, etc. As I remember it, I had a strong headwind and just made it to the airport with only about a gallon or two of fuel left. Though that's not cool, the watch made it possible.
 
#36 ·
Re: Hi Curtis, this is exactly what I've been wondering. .

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, I haven't visited the site for a while. However, to answer your question most of my flying has been in general aviation. My father was a flight instructor, started giving me flying lessons when I was 10 so I've been involved in aviation basically most of my life. I flew professionally for a very short period (3 years), and during that time I flew a TBM 700, which is a pressurized single engine turboprop. Most of my flying time has been split between Beech Bonanzas and a Cessna P210 (which was converted from a piston engine to a turboprop). I actually learned to fly in a Bonanza.

In the good old days airplanes had 8-day manual wind clocks, very reliable and of course no electricity needed. All the other airplanes had electric clocks wired directly to the battery, so as long as the battery stayed on line I had a clock. I always carried a standby handheld radio nav/com and in most of the airplanes there was an auxiliary jack that allowed the handheld to tie-in directly to the ships antenna. So clock or no clock I'd be able to establish communications and navigate. I guess if I had a total electrical failure I'd use my wrist watch to time an instrument approach, oh but wait! my cell phone has a built in timer, is much more legible, and even has a lighted display. I've had electrical failures while flying, but in each case I was able to get on the ground safely, using the available power left in the battery, or by using the stand-by generator.

Regards,
Curtis
 
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