The Ultimate Military Watch

[Janne]

Don't slag off my bow and arrow! I occasionally feel the need to revert to it

I'm not a fan of shiny/ silver coloured watches. I think any watch where a techno stack or basic timepiece needs to be black with weak nighttime illumination.

A sharp piece of steel, or a wire of steel is good too!

Now, your second sentence tells me you are a real soldier. I mean it. You want a weak nite time lume. Excellent, simply excellent, observation!
So many wannabee warriors/ desk warriors feel the need for a huge, bright lume. I have several times pointed out the importance of keeping your nighttime vision, I have lost the count!

Edit: I forgot to mention why a 3 hand watch is useful over a digital only watch.
you can take out a pretty accurate compass bearing by using the hands and the sun. Only a few degress off in most cases, and I guess even less with a bezel with compass features.

[Specialist]

"Tide phase/ prediction (really important form time to time to know in a military context) i hope you are joking?"

No, not joking. Tide prediction can be useful in a military context. Seriously, you don't know this???

Anyway, some Suunto Core Military Versions have a strap ( Core Black Rubber Strap | Suunto )with a double screw-down bracelet lock- mine has this. I know the spring bar set-up is absolutely useless- just putting on or taking off a seriously heavy bergen will rip the watch off your wrist. My Suunto Core has been caught up loads of times but always stayed on because of that double screw locking system.

Look, at the end of the day this thread is about the ultimate Military watch that is essentially a set of time, environment and navigation tools that can aid a soldier in the field (either as a backup or to support a decision) from time to time during a tab or at a planning phase or in case of emergency. It's not, nor can it possibly be a replacement for normal skills, drills and SOPs. Why anyone would think this is rather strange since no one suggested it.

Furthermore, if you did not know how to use a compass and map and/or understand the relevance of altitude in reference to topographic maps, an ABC watch would be rather useless to you. So the logic of the discussion that a soldier who cannot map read and does not know his fieldcraft using an ABC watch instead is flawed to say the least.

So far, the best set of tools on a wrist IMO is the Suunto Core Black closely followed by the Casio Pathfinder (all black version). If i'm going out in harms way, in addition to my weapon, body armour, Silva Compass, Map and training I'd also, if given the choice, in addition to my Gerber Multi-tool want a Garmin 401 GPS and an ABC watch like the Suunto Core. In reality, that is what I load up with anyway.

Perhaps we should condemn the Gerber Multitool in case it compensates for a soldier's lack of a vice-like grip and/or lack of sharp teeth I've used my gerber to wrench out a stuck 7.62 round from a GPMG at at time when that GPMG was really needed!

There are many so-called military watches that are solid steel, silver coloured with nice shiny bracelets costing upwards of £800! What a waste of money when you could have a G-Shock for under £100 that does the same thing plus world time and count-down timers and not give you away in reflected sunlight.

I'm particularly after a replacement for the Suunto and so far can't find anything better so I may end up buying a nice new version and sell my old one.

[Specialist]

Just to add a couple of points: which watch is used by some German Elite units?
Which watch is used by some Canadian and US units?
The make does not matter . But, they are all 3 handers. I rest my case.

Have you heard about budgeting, military cut-backs, bean counters and the euro crisis? Have you checked out the thread about what Military people (who can afford their own personal watch) wear? I rest my case for the A,B, AB or ABC wrist watch as a useful tool from time to time

I did have a Traser P6500 (apparently issue to US Navy Seals) which is a basic three hand watch and did occasionally check rough direction. That's when I started to think why I should get a more accurate tool. That's when I chose the Suunto.

I was surprised to see the Timex Ironman cited by many posters since I think it's not a very tough watch.

[Janne]

Well, we have different experiences etc, which is fine. But you should know that the vast majority of units worldwide can do without the electronical help as well as those with the help!

The main thing is that YOU choose a timepiece YOU feel happy with, without breaking your budget!

But I am intrigued by the tides indicator, please explain! I have been thinking about that one most of the afternoon, but can not find a use for it ( except if you are in a beach assault situation, then it could in theory be good to know where the beach/ surf is) .

Also the Wind chill indicator is useless, I can explain that later, if you request so.

[Janne]

Have you heard about budgeting, military cut-backs, bean counters and the euro crisis? Have you checked out the thread about what Military people (who can afford their own personal watch) wear? I rest my case for the A,B, AB or ABC wrist watch as a useful tool from time to time

I did have a Traser P6500 (apparently issue to US Navy Seals) which is a basic three hand watch and did occasionally check rough direction. That's when I started to think why I should get a more accurate tool. That's when I chose the Suunto.

I was surprised to see the Timex Ironman cited by many posters since I think it's not a very tough watch.

Yep, in my days Sweden had huge Armed Forces, that were consuming a very large chunk of the BNP, only second to Israel. We had to save, count, reuse, repair. That incredibly boring bit was a large part of our regiment time.

I do not know, but the Timex seems to be quite tough. But I guess if it breaks, it is cheap enough to get a newone without shedding any tears?

[Specialist]

Well, we have different experiences etc, which is fine. But you should know that the vast majority of units worldwide can do without the electronical help as well as those with the help!

The main thing is that YOU choose a timepiece YOU feel happy with, without breaking your budget!

But I am intrigued by the tides indicator, please explain! I have been thinking about that one most of the afternoon, but can not find a use for it ( except if you are in a beach assault situation, then it could in theory be good to know where the beach/ surf is) .

Also the Wind chill indicator is useless, I can explain that later, if you request so.

Tides can be useful depending on which branch of the military you are in and what role you play in a particular unit, mission, combat support and what the enemy may or may not able to do in say a coastal environment.

If you're in a mechanised role for example, tides will be of no use unless you plan to steal a canoe or boat in an E&E situation Planning a boat trip when the boat is on it's keel would be silly- you'd get muddy, look very silly trying to climb up a boat in mud, probably get caught and upset your mum or you'd turn back and risk getting caught anyway.

Why is wind chill indicator not useful?

[Janne]

Ok, do it was in an amphibian scenario.

"Windchill factor" became popular ( in Europe anyway) when those adventurers and so called survival experts started doing the TV programs. It sounds much more impressive to say that the (W.chill) temperature is Minus 50Celsius than the real temperature ( minus 30 Celsius).

In degrees below - 20 Celsius you do not have any exposed skin, you cover up, no matter how much wind here is.

In the Arctic climate ( remember, that was my area of operation) you always have an outer layer of a wind stopping material ( usually a white 2 piece set, the parka had a hood with a drawstring) .
You cover the head and face with a balaclava, white silk down to about - 10 C, a white woolen one below that, and if it is very cold, say under -35 or so, with 2 balaclavas, the silk one to the skin, and the woolen on the outside. This only if you did not ski or do anything physical.
Lower the temp by maybe 20 degrees from what I wrote if you do physical stuff.

For example, hard skiing ( full load in backpack, arms, ammo, all other stuff we had to carry, total weight approx 70 kilos) down to - 15, no matter which strength of wind, we only had the silk balaclava, cotton battle trousers, thin cotton shirt and the 2 piece overall. Plus gloves.
Always the 2 piece overall, as camouflage.
So practically your skin is never exposed for long to the wind.


The art of dressing correctly was very important for us. We had to think about the workload ( to be too hot and to sweat is lethal) and the temperatures all the time.
When we got the new soldiers to train, the temerature awareness was one of the most important educations, how to dress, how to behave, how to take a pee and a dump, symptoms of frost bite cures, etc.
Sure, sometimes we miscalculated, or the temerature dropped unexpectly. Most of us got frost bitten ears, nose, cheeks.
My ear tops still itch if I am too long in sun. And my nose back peels.
30 years later.

Of course, you can imagine how nice it is to have a wee in -45 or even worse, a dump. Thankfully the food we were eating was highly concentrated dehydrated stuff, without any fiber, so we needed a dump maybe once every 4 days or less.

I am sure everyone has heard the story that your wee freezes in mid air. It does if it is around - 45 or below.
And you do not expose your manhood for long. Most of us had yellow stained overalls after a few days out!

I should add that no in my unit during my time there got any permanent damage duevto frost bite.

The people that tought us the skills in cold weather, general survival etc ( non military stuff) were specisl instructors belonging to the indeginous people called Sami. They are a kind of Inuit people. Reindeer herders etc.

Fantastic guys. Could not take the drink ( lack of an Enzyme) but absolutely the toughest and meanest guys I have ever met.
We sisies folded after skiingf fully loded for maybe 150 km. Those guys made a fire, had some salt coffee, and could go on an hour recon to check the immediate area.

[ancient_mariner]

I usually keep away threads like these because there are so many tastes in watches than there are people. And what ever watch works with you and you are happy with it, its fine by me. But now I would like to make an exception and give my insights about this matter :)

Janne has great points in his posts and I agree with them. I spend most of my army time in the arctic circle, I am a reserve officer and a platoon leader, we have a reserve army so vast majority of Finnish men are military trained. Temperatures ranged from -48 celsius to +35 celsius, lot of snow in the winter and mosquitos in the summer:) The watch I wore was a simple analog quartz watch with metal bracelet, nothing fancy but it survived just fine. Size was something 36-38mm, definetely not bigger than that. In my opinion, basic watches are so much tougher than we give them credit. I think many manufacturers just create hype when they are introducing "tough" watches and we as consumers fall for it, and I am not an exception.

One thing that often puzzles me when people give suggestions in threads like this, is that often the watches they suggest are huge. From my experience, watch should be small and slim enough so it would not get caught with rifle strap, backpack straps, combat belt, clothing etc. I have Suunto Vector and I really like it and I use it mainly for sports and outdoor. It is quite a big watch, although very comfortable to wear. I know many army personel use it, but in my opinion it would be too big. If you are interested about Suuntos, have you checked the Observer? It is a smaller ABC and I think it would be better choice for military use than Vector or Core. Few analog quartz watches that come in to mind are Citizen BM6400 and Citizen BJ0000-04H, simple average sized and very affordable watches.

I hope you find the watch that suits you. Keep safe.

[Specialist]

Thanks Janna. That's really great info. This is the kind of knowledge, skill and experience that is needed to properly interpret the scientific measurement by an ABC watch.

The Suunto Core is rated down to -20C operation (verses -10 for Casio Protrek range) which in reality may well be -27C because of the effect of body temp on the watch reading.

The wind chill factor may be useful depending on the troop condition, weather, distance left to cover and the time constraints. The information I think can be very easily incorporated into an ABC watch is covered in the Wikipedia description Wind chill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

The chart shown is what can be represented on the watch. Only sections of the chart need to be shown on the watch face depending on the measured temperature range in a given period sample. The period sample can be a user setting which will be based on the users judgement of the environmental conditions.

What you have described above is the knowledge and experience that is combined with whatever the watch may be indicating to very quickly make an informed decision- i.e. the watch can become a decision support tool and not the decision maker nor can this utility be judged as replacing knowledge, skill and experience!

[Specialist]

I usually keep away threads like these because there are so many tastes in watches than there are people. And what ever watch works with you and you are happy with it, its fine by me. But now I would like to make an exception and give my insights about this matter :)

Janne has great points in his posts and I agree with them. I spend most of my army time in the arctic circle, I am a reserve officer and a platoon leader, we have a reserve army so vast majority of Finnish men are military trained. Temperatures ranged from -48 celsius to +35 celsius, lot of snow in the winter and mosquitos in the summer:) The watch I wore was a simple analog quartz watch with metal bracelet, nothing fancy but it survived just fine. Size was something 36-38mm, definetely not bigger than that. In my opinion, basic watches are so much tougher than we give them credit. I think many manufacturers just create hype when they are introducing "tough" watches and we as consumers fall for it, and I am not an exception.

One thing that often puzzles me when people give suggestions in threads like this, is that often the watches they suggest are huge. From my experience, watch should be small and slim enough so it would not get caught with rifle strap, backpack straps, combat belt, clothing etc. I have Suunto Vector and I really like it and I use it mainly for sports and outdoor. It is quite a big watch, although very comfortable to wear. I know many army personel use it, but in my opinion it would be too big. If you are interested about Suuntos, have you checked the Observer? It is a smaller ABC and I think it would be better choice for military use than Vector or Core. Few analog quartz watches that come in to mind are Citizen BM6400 and Citizen BJ0000-04H, simple average sized and very affordable watches.

I hope you find the watch that suits you. Keep safe.

I agree, the Suunto Core (and other similar sized ABC watches) is large and it does get in the way of webbing. It's a particular pain when putting on a large heavy backpack but I've gotten used to it -somewhat. The observer is shiny and so could stand out in environments where you would not necessarily be fully covered as is the case in arctic operations. I'm frequently in hot climes where sometimes I need to roll up my sleeves- but this might not be the case for everyone.

I think, tactically whatever watch whether ABC or basic should be matt black.