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  1. #111
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Quote Originally Posted by WesB View Post
    Bad link
    Yes. It has been noted in the later posts on this thread. I've left the sticky here for now in the vain hope that one of our members will find the time and energy to recreate the wiki on another site. It won't be me.
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    Chascomm
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    (no, I am not going to list all my watches here)

  2. #112
    Member LCheapo's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    So, there is no hope for reestablishing contact with the original wiki host (Ian?)? It seems all that is required is to get mysql working again on the server. I tried to put a copy on Google sites, but there is no easy way to clone a whole site. I think I have a local copy, but that's as far as I got. Does anybody have any idea on how to easily recreate the structure on google sites? The archived site used php, and all saved pages are of the form 'index.php?title=Sunboro' (for example).
    Last edited by LCheapo; July 16th, 2014 at 05:52.

  3. #113
    Member J. F. Sebastian's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Quote Originally Posted by Chascomm View Post
    I've left the sticky here for now in the vain hope that one of our members will find the time and energy to recreate the wiki on another site. It won't be me.
    Folks, I have decided to step up to the plate here. I just registered the domain name chinesewatchwiki.net, and have installed MediaWiki on a server that I was already operating for some other sites. It's a fairly low end server which I mostly use for serving static webpages, so the performance may not be fantastic (though I've tried to improve it where I can, e.g. I am using SQLite instead of MySQL, which will also make the wiki less fragile), but this let me get things up and running straight away for minimal cost. If it turns out we need hosting which is a little more "fang zhen" then if people are happy to chip in for proper hosting somewhere I am more than happy to migrate the wiki there. In fact, that might be best in the long run - if the wiki is on its own server, separate from my own personal websites, then I can happily share the server login details with some of the moderators here, and if I get hit by a bus we won't have to start from scratch yet again.

    Because I do not have access to the original database, the only way to repopulate the wiki with all the old pages is to manually copy and paste things. I have done this for a few articles already, but there is a strong bias toward VCM related pages and not stuff on mushroom brands, OEMs, etc, because of where my own interests lie. I am happy to migrate all the other stuff over eventually, but it will take time and I will prioritise things as I see fit. If you want to see your favourite content moved across sooner rather than later, you are very welcome to pitch in and help out yourself to get things across faster.

    I have changed the name from "Chinese Watch Industry Wiki" to "Chinese Watch Wiki" (and knocked up a nice new logo with a tongji diagram), simply because to me it seemed more to the point, easier for folks to remember, quicker to type, etc. I hope this hasn't upset anyone, particularly the person who named the original wiki, if indeed they are still around anywhere. If anybody has especially strong feelings on this, I may be persuaded to change it back.

    In principle, me ressurecting the wiki in this way, by copying and pasting articles from the old one, is only kosher with the permission of the individuals who wrote the original articles. This is because, as far as I can see, the old wiki was not set up in such a way that by submitting material the submitter agreed to it being licensed in a particular way, and as such the copyright for each individual page is still with the corresponding individual author. It's not practically possible for me to get permission for everything in this way - I have gone ahead in the good faith assumption that the original authors wrote what they did out of a willingness to share knowledge on a subject they love with a wider audience, and as such would rather see the material moved to a new site than languish in obscurity on archive.org. If anybody here is an original author of anything and they object to the way this has been done, please speak up. I will happily and immediately remove the copied page(s), and then happily rewrite them in my own words. On a similar note, I have configured the new wiki such that submissions become licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike license (there is an agreement notice about this above the "submit" button on edit pages). This esssentiallly lets people do whatever they want with the material on the wiki as long as they acknowledge the wiki as the original source, do not make any money from what they do, and give these same rights to users of any material they produce using the wiki's material. This seems, to me, like a suitable license for this endeavour, but if anybody who envisions themselves being a frequent contributor would prefer a different CC license, then once again I may be persuaded to change this setting by a reasonable argument.

    I have a lot of plans for revamping and reorganising the wiki, adding lots more information and making it easier to navigate. But I'm also aware that I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, which is strongly associated with the wiki, and that other people here may have their own strong opinions on the way the wiki should look and what should be in it. I don't want to be seen as charging in and single-handedly taking over what should be a community resource, so I will try to discuss my plans openly in this thread (or in another thread if people think that is more appropriate) over the next few days as I start trying to put content up and structure things nicely. I will welcome discussion and opinions from other members on how things are proceeding.

    I hope other people are as excited as I am about having the wiki up and running again. Let's work together to make the wiki into something even greater than it already is! (and the old wiki was great - its article on the Chinese Standard Movement is what convinced me to buy my first VCM)
    Last edited by J. F. Sebastian; October 3rd, 2014 at 11:59. Reason: Forum software "helpfully" rewrote a link, hiding the new domain name.
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  4. #114
    Member DSLAM's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Hi J.F., that sounds great to me. Sounds like a plan. I say go for it. I remember I added a tiny bit of original content before. I'm not much help on the back-end of things but I'm happy to edit some when it goes back live.
    Tianjin Jun Shi 天津君士潛海計時儀器 Military Diver
    Orient オリエント時計
    Blue TT Diver 2ER00004D
    Sea-Gull 海鷗手錶 Chrono 1963 Chinese Air Force Re-issue
    Casio カシオ G-Shock Riseman Solar Multi-band 6 GW9200-1
    Casio カシオ G-Shock White Solar Multi-band 6 GWM850-7CR
    Yes Watch The Kundalini L102.4
    Yes Watch The Cozmo Symbol #K501
    Seiko セイコー Men's SS Silver Dial SGF459
    Seiko セイコー Military Chronograph SDWB63P

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  5. #115
    Member J. F. Sebastian's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Quote Originally Posted by DSLAM View Post
    Hi J.F., that sounds great to me. Sounds like a plan. I say go for it. I remember I added a tiny bit of original content before. I'm not much help on the back-end of things but I'm happy to edit some when it goes back live.
    Hi DSLAM, thanks for the encouragement! The wiki should be live now, if it's not working for you, please let me know. It might be some kind of DNS propagation issue, which will sort itself out in time.

    It seems like when this wiki was first launched, there was some popular support for the idea of a movement database. I created a page today which is in this spirit. I have filled in just some basics to get things started, and will work on it more in days to come, but it would be fantastic if people would help to fill it out by adding their favourite movements to the list.

    I'm going to start a similar list of brands soon, too. My hope is that the wiki becomes densely interconnected in a way that is very conducive to interesting random walks. If you look up a particular movement, you sould be able to click on the name of the factory that made it, and find a list of all the movements they made. Then you can click on one of those movements and find a list of all watch brands using that movement, and so on.

  6. #116
    Member DSLAM's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Wow, that looks great. I want to start browsing it again. I'm sure the fellow watch nuts will want to start adding more info too now. And yes, I like the idea of that movement section too, fantastic. I think you should start a new posting in the group announcing the new incarnation of the wiki so people will know about it.
    Tianjin Jun Shi 天津君士潛海計時儀器 Military Diver
    Orient オリエント時計
    Blue TT Diver 2ER00004D
    Sea-Gull 海鷗手錶 Chrono 1963 Chinese Air Force Re-issue
    Casio カシオ G-Shock Riseman Solar Multi-band 6 GW9200-1
    Casio カシオ G-Shock White Solar Multi-band 6 GWM850-7CR
    Yes Watch The Kundalini L102.4
    Yes Watch The Cozmo Symbol #K501
    Seiko セイコー Men's SS Silver Dial SGF459
    Seiko セイコー Military Chronograph SDWB63P

    Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content

  7. #117
    Member J. F. Sebastian's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Quote Originally Posted by DSLAM View Post
    I think you should start a new posting in the group announcing the new incarnation of the wiki so people will know about it.
    I think that's a good idea. I hope the reason that nobody has commented so far is just because nobody has noticed this conversation up in the Wiki Sticky. After this post, I will make another one in the general forum. I have also put a link to the new wiki in my signature, so hopefully people will notice that too.

    I have been pretty busy working on the forum today, and have made lots of changes. I want to detail them here so that people know what has happened, can offer feedback on the changes I've made, and know where to contribute.

    First up, there are now three database-style pages which I hope will become exhaustive lists of the important factories, movements and brands in the industry, with basic details. The pages are:

    I have tried to set the ball rolling with these pages, but there is a lot more work to do, and a lot of things I don't know. But I hope that the stuff I've put there so far makes the format clear so that other members can quicklky and easily get started contributing stuff they know. Please get stuck in!

    Secondly, in response to some comments I read right at the beginning of this thread about how the wiki was not convenient to casually browse through like a magazine, I have made three "portal" pages, which are linked to from the main page:

    The idea is for these pages to contain links to important articles on their relevant topics, so people can easily browse within a particular subject. I have no problem with people adding additional portals if there are coherent subjects other than these which people think we will accumulate a lot of articles for. At the moment, the three portals above are very rough. The vintage portal is the most developed so far (surprise, surprise), but even that is still just a bunch of links, but they are at least organised into sections. There are very few links on the high-end and modern portals. It would be great if people who are knowledgable and enthusiastic about these subjects could help to develop these portals - even if it's throwing down some organised links to articles which you think should exist but don't yet, and leave them for someone more knowledgable to write.

    Thirdly, for the sake of people who don't have a particular topic that they want to explore, I have created a very broad and general page, called History of Chinese watchmaking. I have thrown this together very quickly by writing the introductory paragraph myself and then just copying and pasting stuff from the other articles. But I would like to see this article receive a lot of polish in time. The idea is for it to summarise the history of Chinese watchmaking, from the WuXing to today, in such a way that the overall story is very interesting and easy to read so that people can end up with a high-level picture of the industry without getting bogged down in details, and maybe then they'll have a better idea of what they'd like to read about (and from there they can hit up the portals). Like the portals, the vintage sections of this article are much better developed than the later ones. It would be great if people could contribute to this - if nothing else, it would be great if somebody with a really good understanding of the history could confirm that the 3-part division I have used in the current article is basically sound.

    Fourth, and I'm a little nervous about this, I have rewritten the main page. I hope this causes no offence to the original author, if indeed they are still around. From my perspective, the original main page was a little strange, in that it was very Swiss-centric. The very first sentence on the very first page of the Chinese Watch Industry Wiki was a statement about the Swiss watch industry! The primary perspective seemed to be considering the rise of Chinese watch manufacturers in the 21st and the threat they posed to established European manufacturers, and how this was "frightening" for timepiece collectors (a very strange sentiment, for me). The main page text made no reference to vintage watches at all, though of course actual articles did. I don't want to suggest that these sorts of concerns have no place in the wiki - they do. But personally I don't feel like they should be placed front and center. The new main page attempts to quickly introduce what I think are all the most important facets of the Chinese watch industry, of the past and today, and emphasises that the wiki is concerned with all of them. I strongly welcome feedback on the new main page, and if the majority of members feel like I have changed it in the wrong direction then I am more than happy to discuss this and revise the page in line with the community consensus.

    I think that's all! I am probably going to take it fairly easy tomorrow and not write too much, but if anybody has any problems with the wiki, do comment here, I will probably still see them. At the moment, anybody should be able to sign up for an account and start editing. When I find the time I am going to configure things so that new accounts must be approved by an admin - I wish this weren't necessary, but sadly I know from experience that it is. If I leave things as is, it's only a matter of time before spam bots start signing up and ruining things. I strongly encourage the members here who are interested in contributing to sign up now, before I put the restriction in place, just because that will make things easier for you!

    Oh, one other thing - the new wiki has new pictures yet! If you have good pictures of watches, movements etc. which are relevant to any of the articles which are currently there, and you are happy with them being CC by-nc-sa licensed, then please upload them!

    EDIT: If anybody feels like spending some time working on the movement list, there is a lot of great information in the forum here. If anybody feels like spending some time on the factory list, a good source is this page on Saskawatch's site. Incidentally, I just noticed that the introductory text for that page expounds the same three-part division of the history of Chinese watchmaking that I jused in the wiki's history page. I am absolutely certain that I read this sometime in past and this is where I got this understanding from, so thanks and credit to Saskawatch!
    Last edited by J. F. Sebastian; October 4th, 2014 at 11:30.
    The Texan likes this.
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  8. #118
    Member LCheapo's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Very nice! Thanks a lot! If you have a copy of all the old pages, could you throw a link to each of them on the new map page, and either link that or better even put that list on the main page? That would really help I think.

  9. #119
    Moderator: F72 and F71 AlbertaTime's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Great job, JF!! Thank you. Now linked at AMCHPR.
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  10. #120
    Moderator soviet's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Watch Industry Wiki

    Many thanks for your new effort!
    For some unknown reasons, my connection to WUS has been very slow for the last couple of years, and the links to your new site is broken at the moment.:(

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