How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look... - Page 8
Like Tree55Likes

Thread: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 115
  1. #71
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Surrey, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    8,842

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

    Quote Originally Posted by foxint View Post
    Guys,

    The comparason was fascinating. well researched and will be a classic post.

    In regard to the ST1901 et al.

    I have one that had a small winding problem and the stem broke. Should have some spare stems.

    So I am offering my ST1901 in the 1963 Air Force case as a subject. What am I saying????
    Dan
    That is very generous of you
    If/when Lysander is done with this review, the archive is going to be even further filled with valuable info...and enough ammo to put down the most ardent Chinese movement bashers

    I'm looking forward to this one Too

  2. #72
    Member GuySie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,814

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

    Mods, could this one be added to the reference section? I keep having the hardest time finding it because the topic name doesn't specifically mention the 2824, and I keep wanting to show it to people on other WUS boards.

    Yes, I realize I should bookmark it, but it is one of the prime examples of a great reference post

  3. #73
    CMW & Sales Moderator gigfy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Watercress Capital of the World, USA
    Posts
    4,994

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

    Quote Originally Posted by GuySie View Post
    Mods, could this one be added to the reference section? I keep having the hardest time finding it because the topic name doesn't specifically mention the 2824, and I keep wanting to show it to people on other WUS boards.

    Yes, I realize I should bookmark it, but it is one of the prime examples of a great reference post
    All of the really technical articles are in the Reference Material sub forum. This one should be the first article at the bottom of the list.

    Cheers,
    gigfy

  4. #74
    Member GuySie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,814

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

    Quote Originally Posted by gigfy View Post
    All of the really technical articles are in the Reference Material sub forum. This one should be the first article at the bottom of the list.
    Ah - missed it because it didn't have 2824 in the topic. Sorry!

  5. #75
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    407

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to an ETA 2824 or ETA 2004-1: An in-depth look...

    Really complete review.

    Quote Originally Posted by lysanderxiii View Post
    I was asked to do a review and comparison of two Chinese movements, the Seagull TY2130 and Hangzhou HZ6300, the two movements were provided by Carlos of the Prometheus Watch Company. These two movements would be compared against the ubiquitous Standard grade ETA 2824-2 and a Top grade ETA 2004-1

    I originally planned to do all my testing and tear down first then post the results, however with four movements, there was too much information for one initial post. So I am now going to do a running commentary of the test, disassembly and comparison as I finish each phase.

    Right now, I have four parts in this study, 1) Description & Initial Timing, 2) Tear-down and Comparison of Quality, 3) Interchangeability, and 4) Assessment.

    This will allow for comments to be posted after each part.

    Part one: Description and Initial timing tests.

    Seagull TY2130



    Hangzhou HZ6300



    ETA 2824-2 (Rado)




    TY2130, HZ6300 and ETA 2824-2
    Type: Automatic mechanical lever movement
    Size: 25.60 mm (26.00 mm overall) x 4.60 mm
    Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 bph)
    Analog three hand display with quick change date, three position winding/setting stem.
    The ETA is a Standard grade with a gold plated nickel balance and Nivarox 2 balance spring, I do not know what material the Seagull and Hangzhou are using.

    ETA 2004-1



    ETA 2004-1
    Type: Automatic mechanical lever movement (uni-directional winding)
    Size: 23.30 mm (23.90 mm overall) x 3.60 mm
    Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 bph)
    Analog three hand display with quick change date, three position winding/setting stem.
    This is a Top grade ETA with a gold plated Glucydur balance and Anachron balance spring

    The TY2130 and the HZ6300 were taken directly from the package, wound and placed on a Mumford MicroSet Watch Timer. Then after running (movements motionless) for 24 hours, the rate (CH only) was taken again to establish the Isochronism.

    The initial results were as follows:

    TY2130:
    Beat error: 0.3 ms
    Rate, CH (dial up): -4.8 seconds per day
    Rate, 9H (crown down): +0.6 s/d
    Isochronism: +9.6 s/d

    HZ6300:
    Beat error: 0.1 ms
    Rate, CH: +15.2 s/d
    Rate, 9H: +11.7 s/d
    Isochronism: -3.5 s/d

    ETA 2824-2 (Rado, recently serviced):
    Beat error: 0.2 ms
    Rate, CH: +2.7 s/d
    Rate, 9H: +2.0 s/d
    Isochronism: -8.2 s/d

    ETA 2004-1 (loose, recently serviced):
    Beat error: 0.0 ms
    Rate, CH: +3.4 s/d
    Rate, 9H: -3.4 s/d
    Isochronism: -7.5 s/d

    All the movements showed excellent rate stability and amplitude (around 310 degrees for the 2824s and 300 degrees for the 2004) over the 24 hours they were under test.

    Just for comparison, the specifications from ETA for the two movements are as follows:

    ETA 2824-2 (Standard grade)
    Rate: +/- 12 s/d
    Variation between all positions: 30 s/d
    Isochronism: +/- 20 s/d
    Amplitude: maximum 315 to 325 degrees; minimum 200 to 220 degrees

    ETA 2004-1 (Top grade)
    Rate: +/- 7 s/d
    Variation between all positions: 30 s/d
    Isochronism: +/- 25 s/d
    Amplitude: maximum 310 degrees; minimum 190 degrees

    So, we can see that the two TY2130 and HZ6300 samples, in the "as received" condition, are quite capable of meeting ETA minimum specifications, and show very good performance in the two positions tested.

    Note on the finish of the movements, The Rado ETA 2824-2 is plain gold plate with a very simple pattern on the rotor, the HZ6300 is plain nickel plate with absolutely no decoration. The TY2130 is finished in a manner similar to the ETA 2004-1 with a fine nickel plate and pearlage on the visible plates and Cote-de-Geneve on the rotor. From a strict utilitarian point of view, nickel plating is the best finish, but is slightly more expensive than gold plate due to the cost of handling the chemical waste associated with nickel plating. Also, pearlage and other decorations show up better on nickel plating.

    Stay tuned for part two...

  6. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    488

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to an ETA 2824 or ETA 2004-1: An in-depth look...

    Quote Originally Posted by ckhouse80 View Post
    Really complete review.
    Especially after reading it in its entirety a second time.
    CTR01 likes this.

  7. #77
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    53

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

    Glad someone resurrected this, I hadn't read it the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lysanderxiii View Post
    The Elgin 760 and 761 were (sadly) the only American made automatics, ever.
    How about the Bulova 23?


  8. #78
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    549

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to an ETA 2824 or ETA 2004-1: An in-depth look...

    Just goes to show the ETAphiles need to be on the lookout for the chinese!

  9. #79
    Member lysanderxiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    N 32 deg, 47' 27.9168"; W 79 deg, 54' 30.3372"
    Posts
    8,783

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to a ETA: An in-depth look...

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew View Post
    Glad someone resurrected this, I hadn't read it the first time.



    How about the Bulova 23?

    All of Bulova's automatics were Swiss ébauches.

    They weren't American. [new information: apparently this is not true, some of the Bulova automatics were made in the USA. 15 Jan 2010]
    Last edited by lysanderxiii; January 16th, 2010 at 02:54.

  10. #80
    Member skoochy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    KLAS / KSFO / NZCM
    Posts
    3,590

    Re: How do Seagull and Hangzhou compare to an ETA 2824 or ETA 2004-1: An in-depth look...

    Quote Originally Posted by lysanderxiii View Post
    The ETA is a Standard grade with a gold plated nickel balance and Nivarox 2 balance spring
    Since we're back on this thread, I've a question. Are you implying that:

    a) the Rado is truly a Standard grade movement,

    or

    b) that it was an ebauche finished for Rado that has the timing bits of a Standard grade movement but was not really delivered as an off the shelf "Standard" movement (the rotor engraving not withstanding)

    Because it seems to be "a" based on your text.

    thanks!

    -s-
    Vegas, baby!

Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •