Seagull 3620 movement

[gigfy]

Hi guys,

I've recently gotten interested in the Panerai homage watches. The style didn't agree with me at first but I like the Chinese Unitas 6497/6498 movements. Now they are looking OK to me.

I found this movement by accident on the bay. Just thought I'd post it so you could put the name with the face.

Sea-gull 3620 (Unitas 6498)


Cheers,
gigfy

[Chascomm]

Hi guys,

I've recently gotten interested in the Panerai homage watches. The style didn't agree with me at first but I like the Chinese Unitas 6497/6498 movements. Now they are looking OK to me.

I found this movement by accident on the bay. Just thought I'd post it so you could put the name with the face.

Sea-gull 3620 (Unitas 6498)


Cheers,
gigfy

Cool! Thanks.

I did not realize that the ST36 series included a 6498-clone i.e. for seconds at 6 o'clock. I wonder if they'll do a skeleton of this one too

[M4tt]

I have one of these movements and I have nothing but praise for it. (which, as you all know, isn't like me at all) It's big, basic and solid with perfectly acceptable timekeeping.

[gigfy]

I found these and am more confused than ever.

The seller 'thinks' they are Seagull and are better than the other 'lower quality' 6497 clones. Notice the differences between this one and the 3620 in the original post. Nicer finish, different regulating lever, no '17 Seventeen Jewels" markings.




It looks similar to the Hangzhou 9011 but without the pearlage on the dial plate..





And here are a few great photos of another generic 6497 with the Swan Neck regulator. I've contacted the seller and asked about this movement. Although this movement is not on the Hangzhou website, I suspect they make it because the same seller also has the skeletonized 6497 in gold & SS.






Hangzhou 9611







Of the dozen or so Panny Homage watch sellers on eBay, these are the only two that did not have the Swan Neck regulator. I'm sure they are others.

This one looks like the top movement, possibly a Seagull but has pearlage and not cotes de Geneve finish.




This one looks like the 3620 but doesn't have the '17 Seventeen Jewels" markings





I have heartburn.

Cheers,
gigfy

[Chascomm]

And then there is this one from Minorva:

The style on the engraving is closer to Sea-Gull than Hangzhou, but still not so very Sea-Gull i.e. while there is a nice depth and cleanness to the cut, the framed edges are quite different from the '3 dimensional' look that Sea-Gull achieves with angled cuts.

Getting back to the 'solid' varieties; does Sea-Gull offer the ST36 with the curved/split bridges, or just the angular/solid version for both lepine and savonette layouts?

Speaking of which, does ETA offer both split and solid bridged version for both 6497 (lepine) and 6498 (savonette)?

[Chascomm]

Hey Walter, I just had a thought. If you ever get the answers to all these questions, perhaps you could write up a wiki entry for 'Unitas Clone'.

[thodgins]

I tried looking up any info for this movement on Tjseagull.com and currently there are no movements listed under the ST36 link. It is possible they are going to add this movement to the page and are just slow to do so. I wish they would also add on the two st24 and st26 that were shown over on TZ-UK.

[gigfy]

I got a few answers from our friendly sellers on eBay. Let's see what we have.


Helenarou

"The regulater like a dagger shape on Swan neck with Tianjain 6497"


"The regulater like a needle shape on Swan neck with Hangzhou 6497"



Shange521

"the movement is made by Hangzhou, this movement has the same measure with swiss 6497, namely, it can be fixed in a watch which originally uses swiss 6497 movement."



Manbushijie

"It is Hangzhou"



Wenping1970

"Hello my friend, The watch is Hangzhou mechanical (hand winding) movement, China make, "



I had to look it up but I believe all of these 6497 clones are lepine (seconds hand is in line with the crown). The Hangzhou clones are many in number, with most having the needle shaped regulator. Helenarou & Shange521 include the swan neck but the Manbushijie does not. The Wenping1970 does not have the needle and is the only one of the bunch that has the angular/solid bridge and pearlage finishing. The Helenarou, Shange521, & Manbushijie all have the curved/split bridge.

The Helenarou Tianjain (which I assume to be Seagull) and their Hangzhou models look almost identical, with the exception of the regulator but I'm afraid I'm not learned enough to spot any significant differences.

Here is a picture of the caseback of a Seagull ST3600SK pocket watch from the Seagullwatch.com website. It has the three fingers bridge (or whatever you call it). So I would assume they have a non-skeleton version. The ST3600S pocket watch does not have a picture of the caseback or we could verify that.


On closer inspection, I see that the ST3600SK has a needle shaped regulator. Dang it! Just when you think you have an acid test!


I'd be more than happy to write a wiki entry with these findings. I'm not an expert, so I'm sure there would be a lot of holes in my text. I'm new to the whole wiki thing, so bear with me. Also, I'm still not absolutely clear on the rules to attach pictures. Is it OK if we give a reference?

Cheers,
gigfy

[eact]

Sea-gull 3620 (Unitas 6498)


Cheers,
gigfy

Is this movement only available on Panerai homage? :thanks

[planetyang]

Thanks to gigfy.
I think too difficult to tell which movement is Seagull or Hangzhou.Couldn't though the regulater.
I ask a web seller,he said the Hangzhou clone 6497 also has a dagger swan neck.

[jakisbck]

I have a couple of those skeletonised movt that I play with every now and then but the movement you put up almost fooled me for a minute............... Good catch gif

[planetyang]

Though these pics provided by gigfy,I find some difference.
In the first pic,so called Seagull ST3600 movement,the red arrow point to a curve.

In the pic of so called Hangzhou clone,the red arrow point to a normal circular.

I think oringal Seagull or Hangzhou don't have a dagger shape on Swan Neck,even don't have 3/4 plate.

[planetyang]

And the clear of "The regulater like a dagger shape on Swan neck with Tianjain 6497" pic,also has a curve at the red arrow.

[Chascomm]

Brilliant detective work!

The visually distinguishing feature that identifies the Sea-Gull ST36 is that there is a small cutaway in the lever bridge, whereas the PTS-Hangzhou 9000 has that bridge cut identically to the ETA-Unitas 6497/6498.


That's a pretty small difference In fact it is so small and apparently pointless that I wonder if Sea-Gull did it simply so they could track where some of their movements end up.

[gigfy]

Brilliant detective work!

My sentiments exactly! Very good!!

Planetyang, did you intercept my email to Seagull? (just kidding ) I specifically asked the question "are there any design traits that are viewable from the back of the movement that would distinguish the Seagull ST36 from Hangzhou & other manufacturers?"

I've got a few more responses from eBay sellers to post and I'll try to combine all of this info into an article.

Cheers,
gigfy

[planetyang]

My sentiments exactly! Very good!!

Planetyang, did you intercept my email to Seagull? (just kidding ) I specifically asked the question "are there any design traits that are viewable from the back of the movement that would distinguish the Seagull ST36 from Hangzhou & other manufacturers?"

I've got a few more responses from eBay sellers to post and I'll try to combine all of this info into an article.

Cheers,
gigfy

I'm not a FBI to intercept you E-mail,haha.

Or maybe these two movement is manufactured by same factory?The diffrence is the same type 6497 but two version like 6497-1 to 6497-2?

I spent hours try to find out how to tell Seagull clone from Hangzhou or others,but at last,it's impossible!My god!

[gigfy]

OK, I'm going to try and tie all of this together. (if my computer will stop crashing!! )

I spent hours try to find out how to tell Seagull clone from Hangzhou or others,but at last,it's impossible!My god!

I believe you have found the missing clue already. The pallet bridge!! I did some research and think this is the difference between the Seagull ST36 and PTS-Hangzhou 9000 movements.

The visually distinguishing feature that identifies the Sea-Gull ST36 is that there is a small cutaway in the lever bridge, whereas the PTS-Hangzhou 9000 has that bridge cut identically to the ETA-Unitas 6497/6498.

I agree that the Seagull ST36 has the cutaway (scalloped edges) next to the jewel on the pallet bridge and is held in place with two screws. The PTS-Hangzhou 9000 has an arched fingerlike pallet bridge with the jewel at the rounded end and is held in place by one screw. But the ST36 pallet bridge is almost exactly like the ETA 6497/6498.



Here are some pictures of ETA 6497/6498's that I've shamelessly borrowed that all show the scalloped pallet bridge.




Here are the pictures of the movements that are known Seagull ST36 or believed to be so. I'm not fully convinced of the second picture. I'd love to get a closer look.




Here are pictures of a few of the known PTS-Hangzhou 9000 movements. All have the arched fingerlike pallet bridge with one screw. Some of these have a small indention at the end of the finger close to the rounded end. If only this portion of the bridge is viewable, it may be hard to determine the manufacturer.




The differences in the pallet bridge are also noticeable with the skeletons.

Seagull ST36


Hangzhou 9000


Swiss ETA 6498


So I believe the skeletons used by Minorva88 & Samson328 are Seagulls.


I'm going to post this while I can and avoid another crash.

Cheers,
gigfy

[gigfy]

I checked my eBay email and had a few more responses.

Here are some more PTS-Hangzhou that have the fingerlike pallet bridge with one screw. Two timezones on one of these!



And Minorva88 confirmed that this is a Seagull!


Here is a 'Swiss' 6498 that sold on the bay. Hmmmm?? I don't think so. I see the fingerlike pallet bridge.
[edit] This may be an original Unitas 6498!!!




Is it a foregone conclusion that the Seagull ST36 is a better movement than the PTS-Hangzhou 9000? What do you guys think?


Cheers,
gigfy

[planetyang]

Through pics above,Seagull's 6497 clones is 100% like Unitas 6497,the Hangzhou's at least has one difference with Unitas 6497.But this difference doesn't mean Hangzhou's clone is inferior to Seagull's.Maybe the Hangzhou's actually is inferior to Seagull one.

I asked a webseller yesterday,he told me some interesting thing about China made 6497 clones.A lot of fake Panerai watch's movement are China made 6497 clone,these movement are modified as request by fake watch maker.For example,the nice polish,the modified plate couldn't be done by fake watch maker,these work are accomplished by Seagull factory!Fake watch maker just buy a movement,assemble in watch case,then sell out.They don't have ability to modify watch movement.

[aliasrichmond]

[quote=gigfy;1023155]I checked my eBay email and had a few more responses.

Here are some more PTS-Hangzhou that have the fingerlike pallet bridge. Two timezones on one of these!



And Minorva88 confirmed that this is a Seagull!


Here is a 'Swiss' 6498 that sold on the bay. Hmmmm?? I don't think so. I see the fingerlike pallet bridge.




Another forum member has just bought one of those:

Heck of a deal on ebay!!