American beer!

[Isthmus]

Peter/Getmilk: You are out of line. Keep the fighting off the forum. So long as you post here, please abide by forum posting rules and keep it civil. If you have a problem with anyone, report it to a moderator.

[Isthmus]

"Brewed under licence" is a crime against all beer drinkers. A good beer is developed locally, for the local water etc. To take the receipe and brew it somewhere else does not work too well.

Funny you should say that. Most of the Samuel Adam's that everyone is raving about so much here (and rightly so BTW) is not brewed in their new england plant(s). How do you think a small regional brewery consistently produces such large volumes and makes it's beer available all over the country? They license production to other breweries around the country, that's how. It's a little fact Sam Adams doesn't like to advertise. The funny thing is that quality control must be pretty good, as no matter who is doing the brewing, The product is darn good. I sure as hell can't tell the difference between Sam Adams beers made at different breweries around the country.

A better question, I think, should be why is it that other breweries are able to make Sam Adams' awesome beers so well under license, but often don't make as good a product under their own brands?

BTW for you dutch folks, How come Hieneken sells that nasty Amstel light in the US, but keeps the phenomenal regular Amstel in the Netherlands? They must know Amstel Light is not very good since they don't seem to sell it in their own market.

[Janne]

Intersting about Samuel Adam's! You just publicised a secret!
Not many of us knew that.
Re: "Light" beers. I am not sure, but it seems that "light" beers are more popular in the US, not so in Europe.
IMHO they are pretty tasteless, but OK to drink to quickly kill the thirst when it is hot. As I said before, fizzy water with a hint of beer....

I wil post another interesting fact about the Budweiser brewery in the czech Republic, when I have more time today.

[Isthmus]

I wil post another interesting fact about the Budweiser brewery in the czech Republic, when I have more time today.

Are you talking about the fight between Anhueser Busch and the little town in the Czech Republic and the beers made by each called Budweiser?

[Janne]

No, as I do not want to upset our US friends with semi political comments about that thieving act done by one of the largest breweries in the US, stealing a name and producing a second rate product under that ancient name.



I think they have made an agreement now?

[Isthmus]

No, as I do not want to upset our US friends with semi political comments about that thieving act done by one of the largest breweries in the US, stealing a name and producing a second rate product under that ancient name.



I think they have made an agreement now?

Have they? Last I heard AB was not allowed to sell Budwiser under than name (or was it at all) in the CR. While the czech brewery that made budwiser has to rename the product in markets where AB owns the trademark (especially the US). As I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, at the time of the original Budwieser beer, trademarks law was not what it is today. Also the town's beer wasn't official named that. IIRC correctly the reference is to something coming from that town, such as people or beer. As I heard it, the original maker of the beer in the states was either from there or used a recipe from that town or something like that and named the US beer as a reference to it. at the time beermaking was largely local and not somthing spread out amongst countries the way it is today. the american brand exploded and grew into the giant it is today, and became a well established brand, while the czech one remained largely local and under the same name. When the Czech brand tried to expand beyond the borders of it's country, it started to run into AB and the troubles began. AB has been sued over the name many many times and has pretty been able to defend it's trademark in most cases. the tactics that both sides have used in pursuit of their goals have not been necessarily clean, but as you said, that is another story best left off the forum.

Between you and me, I would have no problem if AB kept the name in exchange for putting the czech recipe into their containers. I am really not a fan of AB beers, especially Budwiser. something about their flavors just don't do it for me (that and Michelob ultra gives me splitting migranes - and that's after only one).

[Janne]

Yes, it was something about not using the names etc.
The name "Budweiser" is German, means "from Budweis". The German name of "Ceske Budejovice" is "Bohmish Budweis".
i have been told that a Breumaister from the brewery emigrated to the US. There he started brewing a beer with a similar receipe. (But I believe they use Rice or Maize in the brewing??? )
This practice was even in the Old Days deemed dishonorable. A Breumaister never took with him the receipe when he changed breweries.
Several breweries have been resurrected in the Czech Republic after the fall of the old regime. But they alwas develop the old receipes, never copy. Honor.

Anyway, my lengthy story, as I have the time now:
My father has a neighbour that is actually the Master Breumeister (Sladek in czech) at the Budvar/Budweiser brewery.
I was priviledged to get a personal tour (with tasting) through the whole factory, even where the normal tour never goes. It was really interesting, as usual.
(I have done many brewery tours).
I was told that they are aproaching the maximum output, as the watersupply can not be expanded.
I asked him, what the problem was to drill a well couple of kilometers away, build a new factory, and start producing larger quantities??
His face went deep red, and he told me angrily, that if I understood anything about beer, I would not ask such an idiotic question. He, as the Sladek, was proud of his work, and would never allow that any other watersource was used.
He explained that a beer like the Budvar, or Pilsner Urquell, or even Lovenbrau from Munich, could never be reproduced using other water. He said that the Brewery College had done research into the different waters and how they influence the taste, but they did not find any scientific explanation why this is so.
Apparently, the mineral content, pH etc can easily be replicated, but that is not enough.
An interesting thing he said, that he as the Master, always tried/tasted every batch, and that sometimes he did not approve of it, and it had to be destroyed.
He said that the Czech beer drinker now has such a good quality selection of beers, if they did not deliver 100%, they would lose a lot of customers.

If anybody has the opportunity to visit the Budweiser/Budvar brewery, do not hesitate!
It is very modern, but still has a lot of Artisanal elements, just like a small British Ale brewery.

They have recently even started making a "fresh" beer, for consumption locally, at selected pubs and restaurants.
I asked if they were prepared to send beer to the Cayman Island, the answer was NO. It would not survive the transport.

[TheWalrus]

Yes, it was something about not using the names etc.
The name "Budweiser" is German, means "from Budweis". The German name of "Ceske Budejovice" is "Bohmish Budweis".
i have been told that a Breumaister from the brewery emigrated to the US. There he started brewing a beer with a similar receipe. This practice was even in the Old Days deemed dishonorable. A Breumaister never took with him the receipe when he changed breweries.
Several breweries have been resurrected in the Czech Republic after the fall of the old regime. But they alwas develop the old receipes, never copy. Honor.

Anyway, my lengthy story, as I have the time now:
My father has a neighbour that is actually the Master Breumeister (Sladek in czech) at the Budvar/Budweiser brewery.
I was priviledged to get a personal tour (with tasting) through the whole factory, even where the normal tour never goes. It was really interesting, as usual.
(I have done many brewery tours).
I was told that they are aproaching the maximum output, as the watersupply can not be expanded.
I asked him, what the problem was to drill a well couple of kilometers away, build a new factory, and start producing larger quantities??
His face went deep red, and he told me angrily, that if I understood anything about beer, I would not ask such an idiotic question. He, as the Sladek, was proud of his work, and would never allow that any other watersource was used.
He explained that a beer like the Budvar, or Pilsner Urquell, or even Lovenbrau from Munich, could never be reproduced using other water. He said that the Brewery College had done research into the different waters and how they influence the taste, but they did not find any scientific explanation why this is so.
Apparently, the mineral content, pH etc can easily be replicated, but that is not enough.
An interesting thing he said, that he as the Master, always tried/tasted every batch, and that sometimes he did not approve of it, and it had to be destroyed.
He said that the Czech beer drinker now has such a good quality selection of beers, if they did not deliver 100%, they would lose a lot of customers.

If anybody has the opportunity to visit the Budweiser/Budvar brewery, do not hesitate!
It is very modern, but still has some Artisanal elements, just like a small British Ale brewery.



But I think they use maize or rice or something??

That sounds like an incredible opportunity. I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of effort, time, and care that goes into the creation of a truely fine beer. It's just as complex and nuanced as the nicest wines in my opinion.

[Isthmus]

I have been told that a Breumaister from the brewery emigrated to the US. There he started brewing a beer with a similar receipe. (But I believe they use Rice or Maize in the brewing??? )

Yeah that's sort of how I heard it too. Not the same recipe, but a similar one. That said what I heard also explained that at the time (the 1800's) beer was local and the American recipe was not originally intended for widespread distribution. That came later with railroads and refrigeration.

As for the Rice thing, you are right. AB's Budwiser is Rice based. In fact, AB is the single largest consumer of rice in the united states. It buys a huge portion of the US rice Harvest every year and uses it to make beer. And they say Americans don't eat much rice.

[Watchbreath]

Your taste change over the years and I remember back in the mid-60s
I really liked Andecker by Pabst.