Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals
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  1. #1
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    Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    Quick Question:

    If you had two watches, both are 5 years old with all original seals/gaskets, but one has 600m W/R rating and one has 100m W/R rating...

    Q. Would the 600m W/R watch have a definitively better chance at passing a 50m W/R test after 5 years of use than the 100m W/R watch?


    I ask because I'm looking to add another diver and wouldn't mind turning it into my all-purpose, beater watch after a few years. I'm really drawn to the Oris Sixty-Five diver but it only has 100m W/R when BRAND NEW. Because it has less seals/gaskets to begin with, does that mean it's more likely to have water leakage after 5 years if I'm not on top of replacing the gaskets every few years? And will it be more prone to water leakage after 5 years compared to an Archimede Sporttaucher bronze that starts with 300m W/R when brand new?

    The MOST water resistance I will ever really need is 100m anyways. I don't actually dive but if the higher W/R (when new) means it will hold up to 100m LONGER, then maybe I need to re-think the Oris Sixty-Five...

    OR do gaskets rot at the same rate whether they are 2mm thick or .5mm thick? Or if the 300m Sporttaucher has 2 gaskets on the crown vs. maybe just 1 on the Oris, then will both be susceptible to water leakage in 5 years EVEN if we're only talking about maybe 30m of water pressure.

    What do you think?



    As far as aesthetics, which one do you think adds more to my current collection?

    The blue or green 42mm Oris Sixty-Five?

    Name:  Oris-Divers-Sixty-Five-42mm-Blue-Dial-Baselworld-2016-4.jpg
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    Or the bronze Archimede Sporttaucher?

    Name:  0241.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  558.0 KBName:  ua8974-tb-a5.5-br.jpg
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Size:  47.0 KB


    For reference, here's my current 6 watch rotation + a Zenith El Primero Original 1969 that I have coming in the next couple of months...

    Name:  20170418_204921.jpg
Views: 134
Size:  1.49 MB

    With the Zenith chronograph coming in, I really want just 1 more diver in my 8th spot. I'd love to try bronze for the first time, but the only one that remotely interests me is the Archimede Sporttaucher right now. With what I have now, everything is kinda dressy/sporty, so I'm feeling a craving to try bronze with the next diver. But on the other hand, the very popular Oris Sixty-Five will be versatile and add some more color and pop to my collection which is always good too.

    Some advice on both fronts here would be much appreciated!


  2. #2
    Member mui.richard's Avatar
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Level.5x View Post
    Quick Question:

    If you had two watches, both are 5 years old with all original seals/gaskets, but one has 600m W/R rating and one has 100m W/R rating...

    Q. Would the 600m W/R watch have a definitively better chance at passing a 50m W/R test after 5 years of use than the 100m W/R watch?


    I ask because I'm looking to add another diver and wouldn't mind turning it into my all-purpose, beater watch after a few years. I'm really drawn to the Oris Sixty-Five diver but it only has 100m W/R when BRAND NEW. Because it has less seals/gaskets to begin with, does that mean it's more likely to have water leakage after 5 years if I'm not on top of replacing the gaskets every few years? And will it be more prone to water leakage after 5 years compared to an Archimede Sporttaucher bronze that starts with 300m W/R when brand new?

    The MOST water resistance I will ever really need is 100m anyways. I don't actually dive but if the higher W/R (when new) means it will hold up to 100m LONGER, then maybe I need to re-think the Oris Sixty-Five...

    OR do gaskets rot at the same rate whether they are 2mm thick or .5mm thick? Or if the 300m Sporttaucher has 2 gaskets on the crown vs. maybe just 1 on the Oris, then will both be susceptible to water leakage in 5 years EVEN if we're only talking about maybe 30m of water pressure.

    What do you think?



    As far as aesthetics, which one do you think adds more to my current collection?

    The blue or green 42mm Oris Sixty-Five?

    Name:  Oris-Divers-Sixty-Five-42mm-Blue-Dial-Baselworld-2016-4.jpg
Views: 134
Size:  203.4 KBName:  Oris-Divers-Sixty-Five_Green-e1480959542318.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  173.7 KB

    Or the bronze Archimede Sporttaucher?

    Name:  0241.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  558.0 KBName:  ua8974-tb-a5.5-br.jpg
Views: 124
Size:  47.0 KB


    For reference, here's my current 6 watch rotation + a Zenith El Primero Original 1969 that I have coming in the next couple of months...

    Name:  20170418_204921.jpg
Views: 134
Size:  1.49 MB

    With the Zenith chronograph coming in, I really want just 1 more diver in my 8th spot. I'd love to try bronze for the first time, but the only one that remotely interests me is the Archimede Sporttaucher right now. With what I have now, everything is kinda dressy/sporty, so I'm feeling a craving to try bronze with the next diver. But on the other hand, the very popular Oris Sixty-Five will be versatile and add some more color and pop to my collection which is always good too.

    Some advice on both fronts here would be much appreciated!
    Unless you belong to the "wear them until they die before servicing" camp I don't see the relevance in your question. You'll need to service your mechanical watches every 5-8 years anyways and when they service them the first item to replace is the seals.

    And tbh I doubt anyone would have a real answer for you. While it may be true that the higher WR rated watch might retain some WR after the rubber gaskets have aged, I doubt it would be good good for any real submersion except water splashes. And the million dollar question is do you want to risk damage to the watch without knowledge whether the seals will hold and take a dip in the pool?

    Many local watchmakers have a dry testing apparatus for checking WR.

    Or, go nuts and get your very own 😉

    http://www.watchtool.co.uk/witschi-p...er-p-7357.html



    So with all that said, I'd choose the watch based on what you'd rather be wearing on your wrist now, as opposed to the "assumed remaining WR" 5 years down the road...if that makes sense.

    Personally I think the two Oris will add a little color to your collection and will be a good "fun" watch, since you only have black and white dials in your collection.

    But the danger of adding a fun watch is you might get tired of it pretty quickly if you're like me...that's my case with the Hamilton Pan Europ blue dial anyways.

    Cheers.

    Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by mui.richard; 16 Hours Ago at 08:05.
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  3. #3
    Moderator 2500M_Sub's Avatar
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    I would not worry about the seals in 5 years, you will be fine. My beef is with all the vintage divers coming out with only 100M water resistance. I know that they are vintage inspired but would it kill them to make them 200M? I see this as a way for the companies to make more profit, less water resistance means less cost to produce for example the crystal may not need to be as thick etc. Panerai making 3 ATM watches and watches with snap backs, what a joke! Just a way for them to produce watches cheaper and gain more profits. Anyway sorry for the rant, if the Oris ticks your boxes I would not worry about the seals failing in even 10 years, by then you should service it anyway.

    Regards,

    Ren

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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    Quote Originally Posted by mui.richard View Post
    Unless you belong to the "wear them until they die before servicing" camp I don't see the relevance in your question. You'll need to service your mechanical watches every 5-8 years anyways and when they service them the first item to replace is the seals.

    And tbh I doubt anyone would have a real answer for you. While it may be true that the higher WR rated watch might retain some WR after the rubber gaskets have aged, I doubt it would be good good for any real submersion except water splashes. And the million dollar question is do you want to risk damage to the watch without knowledge whether the seals will hold and take a dip in the pool?

    Many local watchmakers have a dry testing apparatus for checking WR.

    Or, go nuts and get your very own 😉

    http://www.watchtool.co.uk/witschi-p...er-p-7357.html



    So with all that said, I'd choose the watch based on what you'd rather be wearing on your wrist now, as opposed to the "assumed remaining WR" 5 years down the road...if that makes sense.

    Personally I think the two Oris will add a little color to your collection and will be a good "fun" watch, since you only have black and white dials in your collection.

    But the danger of adding a fun watch is you might get tired of it pretty quickly if you're like me...that's my case with the Hamilton Pan Europ blue dial anyways.

    Cheers.

    Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk
    From what Ive read, people say gaskets seals should be checked/replaced every 2-3 years, no?

    If the seals in a 100m watch last well in to the service interval(5-8 years), then I agree, Im not concerned....

    But I was under impression seals could start failing as little as 3 years...which is an absolute burden if you ask me and thats the reason Id rather take a more "heavy-duty" diver then just a 100m(when new) to the pool, fishing, beach, etc. in that 3-8 yr range before full service overhaul.


  5. #5
    Member mui.richard's Avatar
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Level.5x View Post
    From what Ive read, people say gaskets seals should be checked/replaced every 2-3 years, no?

    If the seals in a 100m watch last well in to the service interval(5-8 years), then I agree, Im not concerned....

    But I was under impression seals could start failing as little as 3 years...which is an absolute burden if you ask me and thats the reason Id rather take a more "heavy-duty" diver then just a 100m(when new) to the pool, fishing, beach, etc. in that 3-8 yr range before full service overhaul.
    Not necessarily. Today's rubber seals are mostly made with synthetic rubbers that are formed with long-chain polymers which last quite a bit longer and remain resilient, compared to natural rubber (similar to what you'd find on a modern tire) For instance, Rolex gives a 5-year warranty and the service interval is recommended at 10 years, so I'd venture to bet they will last at least 5 years long.

    Like I said, it's probably easy to look up a local watch guy to test on the WR with the dry/vacuum method, last I did that was with a vintage Rolex Datejust, and it took less than 5 minutes to verify that it met with the 10 ATM WR test.

    Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by mui.richard; 4 Hours Ago at 19:39.
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    If a 100M rated watch can't stand up to its rating after just 5 years something is very wrong IMO.
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    This is just my stupid opinion... I reckon that Oris's depth rating was given to suit the vintage vibe of the watch by the marketing department. Having opened up a few of my own watches (not that Oris) and seen the seals, visibly at least some 200m rated watches and some 500m rated watches seem to have the same sized seals. I do think it was perhaps a marketing mistake on that Oris 65 since most WIS types really like at least 200m as the minimum. In the Oris's case I cant imagine there was any cost saving making the watch at a lesser depth rating because they still have to fit rubber seals and the machining cost would be the same.

    For example, the case back gasket on a 200m SKX is the exact same as 300m rated, helium safe Tuna. No difference. I have a 300m rated microbrand on at the moment (first full week my Tuna has been off my wrist since I got it) and the case back gasket is not visibly better designed of beefed up over the lower rated SKX which is tested to 250m.

    This point isn't relevant to this thread but since I'm on the topic of seals - Like many here I'm sure, I watch a good few watch reviews on YouTube out of interest and entertainment and read the watch websites. Frequently you hear comments like "of course being a diver, this watch has a screw down crown for increased water resistance". This potentially has no relevance depending on the design of the crown sealing employed. For a system similar to what Rolex use, where there is an o-ring compressed by the crown being screwed in then the water tightness will improve. Many designs don't use this however. For example, Seiko don't use this approach - at least not on the ones I've seen, Monster, SKX and 300m Tuna. These watches seals work the same whether the crown is screwed in or screwed out. With crown unscrewed, these watches are prone to damage by having the crown get caught and ripped out, by having the crown knocked and bending the stem, by having the crown knocked and flexing the o-ring in a manner it wasn't designed and letting water in. Also they probably wouldn't pass the ISO6425 test where there is a perpendicular force applied on the crown to see if it leaks. Provided there crown is not subject the any movement though, the water tightness is the same crown in or out, screwing the crown in protects against damage but does not increase water resistance. But it's so frequently the case that it's just taken for granted that screwing the crown in inherently improves the water risistance when you really need to examine the system to see if that is true or not.

    Basically, my opinion (and it's only that) is that in 5 years time you should have no worries about a 100m rated watch still being waterproof. Of course there will always be the occasional bad luck case but that can happen to a 1000m rated watch, it's just bad luck. Having that said, replacing rubber seals after 5 years wouldn't be a bad idea and shouldn't be a big deal if you want peace of mind.

    OP - Here's the "ablogtowatch" video if you haven't seen it where the Oris 65 get's a decent review and used diving durig the review as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCGKJAzBnuE
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    You will most probably be ok to dive with a 100m wr watch after 5 years.
    There is a thread I started where I dive with both a $10 Casio and a $50 seiko that have a wr of 30m
    I dove to 40m with the seiko
    With today's technology, I would bet $1000 any time with anybody that a 5 year old, certified ISO dive watch would that hasn't been purposefully abused could stand a dive to 40m without suffering any failure.

    This doesn't obviously mean it cannot ever happen.
    The odds are just minuscule.

    I would also challenge your statement that the most wr you could possibly need is 100m
    Most certified divers (already a very small subset of the population) never go past 30m, and I would estimate less than 1% go beyond 50m
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Level.5x View Post
    Quick Question:
    For reference, here's my current 6 watch rotation + a Zenith El Primero Original 1969 that I have coming in the next couple of months...

    Name:  20170418_204921.jpg
Views: 134
Size:  1.49 MB

    With the Zenith chronograph coming in, I really want just 1 more diver in my 8th spot. I'd love to try bronze for the first time, but the only one that remotely interests me is the Archimede Sporttaucher right now. With what I have now, everything is kinda dressy/sporty, so I'm feeling a craving to try bronze with the next diver. But on the other hand, the very popular Oris Sixty-Five will be versatile and add some more color and pop to my collection which is always good too.

    Some advice on both fronts here would be much appreciated!
    Can't advise on the water resistance front however with regard to bronze, I am tossing up between the Steinhart Ocean One Bronze with the green bezel or the Gruppo Gamma Vanguard N-18B (blue dial). I'm leaning to the Vanguard, it runs at 44mm whereas the Steinhart at 42mm. I really like the larger size and I see you have a CW Trident in your collection. Similar size (I've got the white dial and titanium) and they both wear really nicely. Good luck, will be interested to see on what you decide on!

    Oh, and I love the blue Oris, would like one myself, however they are a bit too expensive for me.
    "Socrates is dead, Galilei is dead,
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  10. #10
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    Re: Another Water Resist Question...concerning aged gaskets/seals

    Most certified divers (already a very small subset of the population) never go past 30m, and I would estimate less than 1% go beyond 50m
    Totally agree with that. Deepest I've been is 45m and the amount of times I'd go deeper than 30 is pretty small. The vast majority of the time would be in the 15m or shallower depth. Depends on the dive site in whatever area, in whatever part of the world your are in too. For most recreational divers it's about seeing interesting underwater life and the shallows have plenty of that, better light too and longer bottom times.

    Nobody I know is interested in watches, the diver's I know get their watch battery changed when it runs out. Worry about the seals? Doubt it crosses their mind. There's watches out there for years that dive every weekend and never have any love and they're fine. To be honest, worrying about depth ratings, showering with a watch, thinking quartz watches are lame, ceramic bezel insert necessity, over pressure relief valves and spring-bar insecurity is for the most part the reserve of the WIS community (which I'm a part of) and not normal, regular, "non-watchies".

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