Aquadive BS100, Seiko SBDX001 or Stowa Prodiver + Halios Laguna?

[RTea]

The Seiko MM does look like a dress diver but it is a tool watch at heart with its monoblock case, beautiful bezel and action, amazing lume, sweet ratcheting extension clasp, etc. It is dressier compared to the Sinn U1 but is nowhere remotely near a dress watch IMO. I think it's a great candidate for a do all and go anywhere diver.

I do see these for sale on occasion but nowhere close to the volumes of say an Omega PO or IWC Aquatimer so I don't really see this as a reflection of how good or bad a watch is.

I have not owned the MM 300 or Aquadive but based on looks, heritage, and bang for the buck, I would have to go with the MM 300 by a considerable margin. Due note that it seems that Seiko likes to be conservative on rating the accuracy of their movements (or at from my experiences browsing the Seiko forums). My only gripes about the Seiko is the hardlex and I find their bracelets and clasps hard to get a good fit for my wrists.

[bedlam]

The info is appreciated, thanks for that.

Please be more specific, according to which laws, Swiss, German or US laws? the answer does not mean anything to the savy WIS, because you guys want in depth information and that is disclosed in detail on the Aquadive website www.aquadive.com/makingof.html, I think one the topics of this thread was that the label alone does not really tell. Please correct me if I am wrong.

A few details will be updated as the information on the website are from November 2011, here you go, you are the first to know, the rest remains as is.

1. all dials are now 100% made in Switzerland, from the blank to printing to applying SL
2. mesh bracelets are made in Germany by the largest German mesh bracelet manufacturer
3. Even the Spring bars are made in Switzerland


Please note that the NOS models are 100% made in Switzerland, meaning that case, case back, dial, crystal, hands, movement,bezel, gaskets, straps, spring bars were made in Switzerland 50 years ago, unless a new Swiss ETA movement was recently fitted.

[streetracer101]

arutlosjr11: is there a reason you refer to Aquadive in the first person plural? I've seen you do it on other occasions too. Just curious.

As far as this decision goes- I'm no closer now that I was when I started the thread! Except that I've probably ruled out the PD/Laguna combo. As someone else said: less is more and I don't really want that many watches.

Op - I was one of the ones that said less is more. I think you'll be happier in the end if you go that route.
I think arutlosjr referred to aquadive in that way since he is a mod and is affiliated with them in some way..mainly as a fan if I presume correctly. He likely identifies with the brand because he is so passionate about their stuff.
One thing I wanted to add is that the MM300 and AD are also not really on the same playing field price wise, so the comparison between the two isn't perfect. For example the mm300 usually sells preowned for around $2000 and depending on the AD model you choose, you can get a new one for $1300-2000. So, while it may help to compare these in a head to head match, price wise they aren't really the same. The fact that a "micro" like AD is being compared to something of a legend in any sense does say a lot.
To be honest, there are very few micros that stoke me aside from UTS's. When my bronze gets here later this week I will probably throw up my opinion on it. I tend to be very hard on micros in general since I feel most lack substance. It'll be interesting to see how this one fares. One thing that I have noticed from hours of looking at pics is that the finishing detail on the AD looks really good in pics. They seem to exhibit a level of finishing that is generally found in more expensive watches. Good luck.
Rob

[bedlam]

I have not owned the MM 300 or Aquadive but based on looks, heritage, and bang for the buck, I would have to go with the MM 300 by a considerable margin.

Agreed.

The MM300 is an amazing watch for the money. Where as the AD seems like an amazing amount of money for the watch. I also have a Damasko (DA46) that easily outpoints the AD in build quality, is German made, and still costs less than the AD.

[torifile]

The MM300 is $2450 new from higuchi and the AD is $2035 new direct. Within spitting distance, I'd say. Yes, I know that's about 20% difference but not that much in absolute terms.

[PloProf Pimp]

Op - One thing I wanted to add is that the MM300 and AD are also not really on the same playing field price wise, so the comparison between the two isn't perfect. For example the mm300 usually sells preowned for around $2000 and depending on the AD model you choose, you can get a new one for $1300-2000. So, while it may help to compare these in a head to head match, price wise they aren't really the same. The fact that a "micro" like AD is being compared to something of a legend in any sense does say a lot.

To be honest, there are very few micros that stoke me aside from UTS's. When my bronze gets here later this week I will probably throw up my opinion on it. I tend to be very hard on micros in general since I feel most lack substance. It'll be interesting to see how this one fares. One thing that I have noticed from hours of looking at pics is that the finishing detail on the AD looks really good in pics. They seem to exhibit a level of finishing that is generally found in more expensive watches. Good luck.
Rob

Great points. The Seiko Marinemaster retails for $3,200 in Japan, but not online (Higuchi). Some here that are bashing Aquadive and praising Seiko, also love to whine in other posts that it costs so much money to send your Swiss watch to Europe to have it serviced, and that its such an inconvenience. So how many Seiko owners here have been able to send their Grand Seiko or Seiko Prospex watches to a US, African, European, UK, or Australian service centers? I've had to send mine to Seiko Japan for service. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a spin cycle with some of these threads, at how the basher's expert opinions waffle from thread to thread, and they always try to spin a thread to suit their agendas. I'll admit, it is good for a laugh. Some show their ignorance by not looking at the facts.

Your comment on the case finishing of the Aquadive has been experienced and supported by many long time watch collectors and reviewers. The results are on the web. I know guys that own Aquadive in addition to Grand Seiko, JLC, IWC, Rolex, Hublot, Panerai and many other high end dive watches. And they all say the same thing about the quality, case work, and level of detail of their Aquadive being equal to those watches. I've handled Aquadive's alongside those other brands, (in addition to owning them) and the proof is in the pudding. You have the same few guys beating their little war drums trying to knock Aquadive in any way they can, but they have never even owned or seen an Aquadive. Most of them haven't even owned the Seikio Marinemaster or Stowa Seatime or Prodiver either. So their uninformed bashing opinions really hold a lot of weight in relation to this thread, and the OP's questions. Does Damasko even divulge all their manufacturing and origin info? Seems some here know all the intimate cost and profit details about Isofrane, so they should also know the same info about Damasko you would think.

[bakuma]

Two things:

1. You don't have to send your MM to Seiko Japan. Jack at IWW and others service them here in the US.
2. You seem like one of the biggest "bashers" at WUS. Maybe you were unaware of the attitude you project.

I've had to send mine to Seiko Japan for service. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a spin cycle with some of these threads, at how the basher's expert opinions waffle from thread to thread, and they always try to spin a thread to suit their agendas.

[PloProf Pimp]

Two things:

1. You don't have to send your MM to Seiko Japan. Jack at IWW and others service them here in the US.
2. You seem like one of the biggest "bashers" at WUS. Maybe you were unaware of the attitude you project.

Thanks, great to know. Is his work warranted or authorized by Seiko Japan?

Its one thing to objectively bash a watch or brand you currently own, or have owned, and another thing entirely to unjustifiably bash a watch or brand you have never owned.

[bakuma]

There you go again. Your statement is a red herring. Spend a little time on the TZ sales forum and you will see that an awful lot of different models get flipped, with the Rolex sub being close to (if not at) the top (the Seiko monster may be second). Does that mean there is something wrong with them? Of course not. It means the kind of guys that frequent watch forums often buy watches, wear them awhile and then sell them and move onto something else. End of story.

I also know many other collector friends that owned that watch, and they also flipped it. So there's a reason its been flipped so much.

[ChrisinOhio]

Interesting thread. I've owned all the watches mentioned (some of them more than once) with the exception of the Halios Laguna, although I do have a blue Halios 1000m coming from Jason soon.

Let me preface this by saying that I've never received anything free or discounted from Seiko, Stowa, or Aquadive. I've owned watches from every brand imaginable including Panerai, Omega, IWC, JLC, Seiko, Stowa, Sinn and others. I'm a working divemaster, I'm chairman of an avocational maritime archaeology organization and I've logged a few dives in the last ten years or so.

With that being said I'll offer the following. The Seiko Marine Master is a beautiful watch. The technology is impressive. Two faults I have found with it are the mineral crystal and the bracelet. The clasp is excellent, the bracelet not so much.

The Stowa Pro Diver. I have found no fault with this watch. It's simply awesome. Unfortunately the wait times are long and the secondary market is pretty much nil. People love them and I can't blame them for it.

Halios... is a new company run by one very dedicated gentleman. Jason Lim has made some very nice divers with a cult like following. I've never owned one although my blue 1000m should be here shortly. I'll have to hold off on my judgement of the watch until then.

Aquadive. A company reborn by people with a passion. I was lucky enough to dive two of their watches on loan, a BS300 and a vintage diver. There were zero issues and they performed flawlessly. Even the vintage diver, which I was a bit reticent to take to depth, did fine on reef dives to 45 fsw or so.

The bronze BS100 I dove on several wreck dives so far this summer. No issues. Great build quality and superior luminescence. Superb time keeping.

I think Aquadive will stand the test of time. From what I've experienced first hand they spend considerable effort building and regulating the watches before delivery. All of the AD watches I've worn have kept very, very good time. The fit and finish have been second to none. And to top it off, they've apparently been built by people who care about their products and their customers rather than by some faceless company that doesn't have the time to respond to emails.

I think you would be well served by any of the brands you mention. Personal choice will of course play the biggest role in your decision. Buy the watch that speaks to you. Buy the watch that smiles at you and you'll be happy you did.

Just my 2 cents.