Helson Quality? What do you think.

[johnnmiller1]

I love the Sumo. Don't forget though, it's case is made in China as well.

[vokotin]

I love the Sumo. Don't forget though, it's case is made in China as well.

That is correct and i loved my Sumo, 007, BM etc.. as well but i CANNOT SAY that they're on par with my Turtle, the Helson i currently own or with a Sm600 that i owned because i would be a liar!

[Kent108]

In deed same Sumo has more sophisticated construction and complexity which has nothing to do with at least my needs, I can appreciate good engineering,
but this is not quite important for me. Now none of Seko cases are even close to depth Helson is rated for - it may be overkill, but I like o have some reserve
in strength, just in case.

Just to note: any Seiko case is ALREADY overkill and gives you plenty of reserve "just in case." Even a 100m rated Seiko watch will be just fine for the vast majority of recreational divers. If you want to geek out over absurdly high depth ratings, that's fine, but don't think for a second that there's any practical reason for them whatsoever.

And most important - movement accuracy. I have ETA-2824 and it way ahead of Seiko Sumo. I am not
sure about super expensive one like "The Seiko", but comparing side to side Helson and Sumo - Helson
wins without any doubts.

Well, my Sumo is more accurate than the ETA movement in my Helson Skindiver. For both watches, movement accuracy is a crapshoot and a non-issue: if either one fails to meet your personal accuracy requirements, it's cheap and easy to regulate either one of them.

To the OP: I don't have a Helson Sharkdiver, but I will vouch for Helson quality based on my Skindiver, which survived one of my dives without any problems. I can say the same about my SKX, a Black Monster that also performed just fine. They are both perfectly fine dive watches, capable of keeping accurate time, taking abuse, and maintaining water resistance on a dive. Your decision should therefore be based solely on aesthetics and price (e.g., do you think it looks cool, and can you afford it? If the answer to both questions is "yes," buy either one with confidence.)

[Raza]

Very high quality, especially when considering the price. But be advised that the Shark Diver series wears quite large for its case width. If you're worried about the size, go for the 42mm.

[nozh2002]

Just to note: any Seiko case is ALREADY overkill and gives you plenty of reserve "just in case." Even a 100m rated Seiko watch will be just fine for the vast majority of recreational divers. If you want to geek out over absurdly high depth ratings, that's fine, but don't think for a second that there's any practical reason for them whatsoever.




Well, my Sumo is more accurate than the ETA movement in my Helson Skindiver. For both watches, movement accuracy is a crapshoot and a non-issue: if either one fails to meet your personal accuracy requirements, it's cheap and easy to regulate either one of them.

To the OP: I don't have a Helson Sharkdiver, but I will vouch for Helson quality based on my Skindiver, which survived one of my dives without any problems. I can say the same about my SKX, a Black Monster that also performed just fine. They are both perfectly fine dive watches, capable of keeping accurate time, taking abuse, and maintaining water resistance on a dive. Your decision should therefore be based solely on aesthetics and price (e.g., do you think it looks cool, and can you afford it? If the answer to both questions is "yes," buy either one with confidence.)

No I rate ETA much higher then Seiko. Seiko 6R15 shows day to day from -5 sec to +5 second one day it is +2 next day it id -4 - you never know.
ETA is always let say +4, no matter what. So for ETA - it is matter of tuning, for Seiko - it is matter of luck.

Actually Vostok Amphibia movement I rate better then 6R15 for stability reason.

Now for "practical reason" there is not much difference between Helson, Seiko and Invikta - but we are talking about
quality. So even I can live with Seiko and Invikta, I prefer Helson, because it is better as a watch, however yes, Seiko
(as well as Invikta) has nicer polish which I do not care about at all (I think Invikta is even shinier).

[Jake B]

Very high quality, especially when considering the price. But be advised that the Shark Diver series wears quite large for its case width. If you're worried about the size, go for the 42mm.

Yeah man...A friend of mine, who's also our t-shirt guy, showed up last week wearin' one. I was pretty blown away by the size. Gotta say, the watch was killer.

[Kent108]

Actually, my Sumo (6R15) movement consistently gains roughly 1.2 seconds a day. This is regardless of how long I wore it, how active I was that day, whether or not I was particularly clumsy that day (and bumped my watch into various hard objects), and in what position I rested it on my nightstand while I was sleeping. (Take away the handwind and hack capability, and the same can be said about the 7s26 movement in an SKX diver.) My experience with ETAs, which in general are pretty consistent in the same way, is different in that it does make a difference how I rest the watch on my nightstand.This is no big deal, but if you're really going to do a comparison, then the nod goes to the 6R15 on that point. The only true advantage of an ETA movement that I have experienced is the higher beat rate (smoother second hand sweep) -- if such things matter to you.

I suppose you got a bad 6R15 movement-- thus illustrating that, like I said, it's a crapshoot. The most accurate ETA movement I have gains about 1.2s a day. The ETA in my Helson loses between 7 and 8 seconds a day. A third is roughly in between that. IMO, the 6R15 is every bit as good and reliable a movement as a basic ETA movement.

As for the rest of the watch? I've been perfectly pleased with build quality of both the Helson and the Sumo. You either like Seiko bezels or you don't, but I've never found a watch with the silky smooth feel of a Seiko bezel. As for cases -- nothing to complain about with Helson. But the Sumo case seems clearly more difficult to execute, so while you can't fault the Helson for quality, the Sumo impresses more. It's a bit like admitting that Helson performed a flawless handspring, while Seiko performed a double layout with a triple twist. (Yes, I have been watching Olympic gymnastics.) You might not have any use for that extra flair, and it might not be any more perfect than the simpler technique. But it still gets more points.

No experience with the Vostok Amphibia movements. My understanding is that they are rugged, but inconsistent.

No I rate ETA much higher then Seiko. Seiko 6R15 shows day to day from -5 sec to +5 second one day it is +2 next day it id -4 - you never know.
ETA is always let say +4, no matter what. So for ETA - it is matter of tuning, for Seiko - it is matter of luck.

Actually Vostok Amphibia movement I rate better then 6R15 for stability reason.

Now for "practical reason" there is not much difference between Helson, Seiko and Invikta - but we are talking about
quality. So even I can live with Seiko and Invikta, I prefer Helson, because it is better as a watch, however yes, Seiko
(as well as Invikta) has nicer polish which I do not care about at all (I think Invikta is even shinier).

[nozh2002]

Actually, my Sumo (6R15) movement consistently gains roughly 1.2 seconds a day. This is regardless of how long I wore it, how active I was that day, whether or not I was particularly clumsy that day (and bumped my watch into various hard objects), and in what position I rested it on my nightstand while I was sleeping. (Take away the handwind and hack capability, and the same can be said about the 7s26 movement in an SKX diver.) My experience with ETAs, which in general are pretty consistent in the same way, is different in that it does make a difference how I rest the watch on my nightstand.This is no big deal, but if you're really going to do a comparison, then the nod goes to the 6R15 on that point. The only true advantage of an ETA movement that I have experienced is the higher beat rate (smoother second hand sweep) -- if such things matter to you.

I suppose you got a bad 6R15 movement-- thus illustrating that, like I said, it's a crapshoot. The most accurate ETA movement I have gains about 1.2s a day. The ETA in my Helson loses between 7 and 8 seconds a day. A third is roughly in between that. IMO, the 6R15 is every bit as good and reliable a movement as a basic ETA movement.

As for the rest of the watch? I've been perfectly pleased with build quality of both the Helson and the Sumo. You either like Seiko bezels or you don't, but I've never found a watch with the silky smooth feel of a Seiko bezel. As for cases -- nothing to complain about with Helson. But the Sumo case seems clearly more difficult to execute, so while you can't fault the Helson for quality, the Sumo impresses more. It's a bit like admitting that Helson performed a flawless handspring, while Seiko performed a double layout with a triple twist. (Yes, I have been watching Olympic gymnastics.) You might not have any use for that extra flair, and it might not be any more perfect than the simpler technique. But it still gets more points.

No experience with the Vostok Amphibia movements. My understanding is that they are rugged, but inconsistent.

My experience is absolutely opposite. Sumo vary day to day from -5 sec to +5 sec (I am comparing it to atomic watch).
All my eight ETAs are absolutely consistent. Two of them has 0 sec a day and other inside 4 sec range after tune up.
And I monitoring them for about a year and half.

I never had any problem with ETA. I have only one mechanical Seiko (I bought it new from Japan) and I am not going to
try another one - why? I know ETA is always good. May be I have bad apple... But I am not wasting my money to be fair
statistically... ETA works perfect for me.

Now is it bad or good - it is in specification range and officially 6R15 is as good as promised. So it may be bad but nobody
are going to fix it for me, only for my money.

Vostok has better movement then Seiko 6R15 and of course cheaper one, from the construction point of view. But assembling
quality may vary. So once it is serviced by good watchmaker - it is ahead of 6R15. My 20 years old Vostok is as consistent as
ETA (but has no hack) after service. It has ruby even on rotor, so they are much more reliable and with good care very accurate.

Sophisticated case construction, "silky smooth" bezel movement and polish means nothing. Sapphire crystal however - scratch
free and much more clear. This is real value. But all this sophisticated case etc - you may find for pretty cheap price on many
brands like Invikta, Fossil and other crap.

Actually it is quite easy to make case - there are a lot of fake Chinese Rolex, Omega etc for $1 for ten pieces - with silky smooth
polished cases and everything of this nature.

[Kent108]

I, too, monitor my watches by comparing them to the U.S. atomic clock, and I've been wearing them for over four years (with the exception of the Helson, which I only bought in May 2011.) But hey, if ETA works fine for you, I agree there's no reason to try anything new.

I'm not going to debate with you over Vostok. The only Russian watch I have any interest in isn't a dive watch and it isn't a Vostok. Like I said, what I've read seems to suggest that your opinion is in the (extreme) minority -- in that you're the first person I've ever heard praising the Vostok movement for anything other than durability. I will, however, submit, that if you're willing to have a Vostok movement serviced by a good watchmaker but you're unwilling to have a watchmaker simply regulate a Seiko movement, and then you claim Vostok's movements are better, you're clearly biased against Seiko. Incidentally, I don't care if the Vostok movement has a ruby on the rotor. Nearly all mechanical watch movements have multiple synthetic rubies throughout: so what?

Sophisticated case construction, smooth bezel movement, and polish most certainly do mean something if you're going to talk about construction quality (and that is a large part of this thread's raison d'etre.) Whether or not you appreciate them is another thing altogether. I may not have a need for Bugatti Veyron, but that doesn't mean I can claim that my perfectly serviceable Subaru (which I genuinely prefer) is a better car. What you prefer is completely irrelevant to this discussion. By the criteria by which we judge quality, the Sumo's case construction is more sophisticated and therefore more impressive in quality than the Helsons that I've seen.

Incidentally, I would like for you to present an example of a Fossil or Invicta that is superior to a comparably priced Seiko, nonetheless. I'd also challenge you to shoe me a fake Rolex is comparable quality.

Incidentally, if it really was "quite easy to make good cases" then everyone would do so.

The more we discuss this, the more it's becoming obvious that you were never going to like Seikos, no matter what the company made or did.

My experience is absolutely opposite. Sumo vary day to day from -5 sec to +5 sec (I am comparing it to atomic watch).
All my eight ETAs are absolutely consistent. Two of them has 0 sec a day and other inside 4 sec range after tune up.
And I monitoring them for about a year and half.

I never had any problem with ETA. I have only one mechanical Seiko (I bought it new from Japan) and I am not going to
try another one - why? I know ETA is always good. May be I have bad apple... But I am not wasting my money to be fair
statistically... ETA works perfect for me.

Now is it bad or good - it is in specification range and officially 6R15 is as good as promised. So it may be bad but nobody
are going to fix it for me, only for my money.

Vostok has better movement then Seiko 6R15 and of course cheaper one, from the construction point of view. But assembling
quality may vary. So once it is serviced by good watchmaker - it is ahead of 6R15. My 20 years old Vostok is as consistent as
ETA (but has no hack) after service. It has ruby even on rotor, so they are much more reliable and with good care very accurate.

Sophisticated case construction, "silky smooth" bezel movement and polish means nothing. Sapphire crystal however - scratch
free and much more clear. This is real value. But all this sophisticated case etc - you may find for pretty cheap price on many
brands like Invikta, Fossil and other crap.

Actually it is quite easy to make case - there are a lot of fake Chinese Rolex, Omega etc for $1 for ten pieces - with silky smooth
polished cases and everything of this nature.

[Pachoe]

Superb quality; I own a fixed bezel Gauge and holds chronometer specs since the first day (+2secs per day). Its handle of Brushed Titanium as well as bronze is amazing; Domed Saphire crystals are a delicious too....... Love it and you know I have Omegas, Longines and Breitling pieces that are not better.

Cheers!!