I want a Bronze Diver. Which one (or two) should I get?

[ttimbo]

Lum-Tec will probably be in the same price range as Olivier...we'll need to wait and see.

For those that want to see more of Scott's excellent work, keep an eye on timesofplenty.com and his eBay store

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[amers]

Well if you are looking at Kazimon, then you are within range of Anonimo (Used) If you are going to get a bronze then at least add one of these to your collection....They were one of the first watch companies to make a bronze watch and have lots history using it.
Good article if you have some cycles to read:
DeskDivers.com - Polluce, the Legend and the Anonimo Commemorative Timepiece


Benarus will be making another batch for next yr. but you'll have to wait for the reservations to open. Sign up for the newsletter on his site so you get the notice on when it opens up. Steve @ Benarus is fantastic to deal with and the watches are very high quality. Swiss movement and German watch case made with CuSn8 bronze and they are worth the wait.

[_jonte]

Zenton B43, if they weren't sold out... :(

[MikeAB]

I own the Magrette and I really like it. Great watch for an intro piece for the Bronze market. But I voted for the Benarus. I have a SS Moray II and would get it in the Bronze version, just a bit steep in price for me. I like the Olivier also. Seems like a decent price for a bronze. If I were to purchase a second one the Olivier would be it.

[thecustomer]

fastward, What do you mean by "Catalog case HK watches"? Do you mean technically deficient or less exclusive?

I agree with you at least partially. If you evaluate all of these operations against what I call the "10 distilled criteria to assess a watch/watchmaker":

1. Product Design
2. Product Reliability a.k.a time keeping (dependent on watch movement)
3. Product Warranty
4. Product Rarity
5. Product Affordability
6. Product Desirability (Resale Value)
7. Quality of Materials
8. Quality of Workmanship
9. Quality Control
10. Quality of Customer Service

Using these 10 criteria, do you truly believe that "Kazimon" stands heads and shoulders above the rest. I'm not convinced. For instance, Kazimon is not the only operation that used a single block of bronze to produce a casing; they all do it that way. It is the standard operating procedure for case manufacturing no matter what material is used. After-all the alternative would be to glue/weld pieces together and I am quite confident that the others are not doing that. They may outsource the process and Kazimon may do it in house but that doesn't change the process.

I do however agree that Kazimon and Kaventsmann and for that matter Zenton are unique in a sense that they are small boutique operations which brings exclusivity to their products. They may not produce a technically better product or offer a higher level of service, just a more exclusive product by virtue of being a smaller boutique operation. I don't think others are technically deficient, in fact I think they have more "business smarts" than our exclusive boutiques above.

Thoughts?

[Tragic]

fastward, What do you mean by "Catalog case HK watches"? Do you mean technically deficient or less exclusive?

I agree with you at least partially. If you evaluate all of these operations against what I call the "10 distilled criteria to assess a watch/watchmaker":

1. Product Design
2. Product Reliability a.k.a time keeping (dependent on watch movement)
3. Product Warranty
4. Product Rarity
5. Product Affordability
6. Product Desirability (Resale Value)
7. Quality of Materials
8. Quality of Workmanship
9. Quality Control
10. Quality of Customer Service

Using these 10 criteria, do you truly believe that "Kazimon" stands heads and shoulders above the rest. I'm not convinced. For instance, Kazimon is not the only operation that used a single block of bronze to produce a casing; they all do it that way. It is the standard operating procedure for case manufacturing no matter what material is used. After-all the alternative would be to glue/weld pieces together and I am quite confident that the others are not doing that. They may outsource the process and Kazimon may do it in house but that doesn't change the process.

I do however agree that Kazimon and Kaventsmann and for that matter Zenton are unique in a sense that they are small boutique operations which brings exclusivity to their products. They may not produce a technically better product or offer a higher level of service, just a more exclusive product by virtue of being a smaller boutique operation. I don't think others are technically deficient, in fact I think they have more "business smarts" than our exclusive boutiques above.

Thoughts?

All of the companies in your poll with the exception of Kaventsmann I guess are contract makers, in that they commission/outsource all of the actual production.
Those brands that actually design and contract for unique cases/bezels deserve props and have more costs and rightfully command a higher price.
I don't follow boutiques closely enough to know which in the poll besides Kazimon fall in this category.
I think the price differences between Helson/Benarus and Magrette/Olivier are pretty surprising.
The Olivier for 850 for an eta and 2 bezels and bronze buckle is the screaming value I think......still a goofy name though.

[abuemily]

The Kaventsmann is about as boutique as it gets. It's a one-man operation-- Michael decided to make just 20 watches, each machined from a single block of bronze. They sold out within a matter of days--the price was in the neighborhood of 1100 euros, which may make it the most expensive, but not sure exactly how much the Kazimon went for--think it was a bit more than that.

[thecustomer]

The Olivier for 850 for an eta and 2 bezels and bronze buckle is the screaming value I think......still a goofy name though.

I could not agree more. I have now classified these guys based on exclusivity (or at least perceived exclusivity). Please correct me if I'm wrong here:

> $1500 Category:

• Anonimo
• Kazimone
• Benarus
• Zenton

$1000 - $1500 Category:

• Helson
• Keventsmann

< $1000 Category:

• Margette
• Olivier
• Lum-Tec

All things considered, I am buying Margette and Olivier. Margette comes with a Miyota Mechanical movement and I've ordered Olivier with Swiss ETA movement. This gives me variation of movements in my Bronze collection as well.

I will wait to see what Lum-Tec comes up with in January, if its priced right, I may go for one of those as well but for the time being, I am happy with my decision to go with Margette and Olivier.

I will skip Helson and Keventsmann. I find Keventsmann ugly. To be more gentle, its an acquired taste. As they grow up from being a one man operation, their designs may also get refined but for now I'll take a pass.

As for Helson, I have read that they have had serious and repeatable quality control issues and trying to address them through beyond normal customer service. That's good but I think it puts a question mark on their ability to execute and their pricing strategy. I think their Bronze for what is on the offer is too expensive at $1299. If they continue to struggle with QC issues, it will hinder their ability to move up in the price bracket so they will be forced to move downward. Basically, the Helson will be worth much less in the future. For all those reasons, I will pass for now.

Finally, I will keep an eye out for a Kazimone, Anonimo, Benarus or Zenton. If they have another production run, I will definitely reserve one.

For now, I have reserved 2 watches (3 unique styles) for $1265. Well under my $1500 budget. Mission accomplished!!

[putnam dan]

See if you can persuade vintage vdb to do a 2012 in bronze, it worked with kazimon so you never know.

[tinknocker]

The Olivier would be my pick. With a L2L of 48mm, it would fit my wrist. I just think it's a bit over priced though.

Out of my price range at least