I want a Bronze Diver. Which one (or two) should I get?

[Cleans Up]

The oliver case looks great probably the same as teh scafo/bucaneer-not original but I don't care. I also like the hands a lot, if it was possible to be too long then these might actually qualify! My only issue is the dial, I'm not crazy about the date window- or the name (not exactly sure why but it doesnt' resonate w/ me) Makes me wonder if others ie helson/scafo will bring out something similar.... might be worth holding out for

[paul@orbvalley]

I voted Kaventsmann,becuase i have one on order!!
Paul

[danielk]

I could not agree more. I have now classified these guys based on exclusivity (or at least perceived exclusivity). Please correct me if I'm wrong here:

> $1500 Category:

• Anonimo
• Kazimone
• Benarus
• Zenton

$1000 - $1500 Category:

• Helson
• Keventsmann

< $1000 Category:

• Margette
• Olivier
• Lum-Tec

The Zenton is in the $1000 - $1500 price range, but they are currently sold out of both of their bronze versions.

[PTG]

As for Helson, I have read that they have had serious and repeatable quality control issues and trying to address them through beyond normal customer service.

I hope you're not referring to the one guy who complained here a few months ago. There was some question about the validity of his complaints, or perhaps his motives, but even if completely true his experience was anecdotal. I suspect you would be hard pressed to find anyone on this forum who has had any serious problem with their Helson.

I don't own a Helson and have no axe to grind, but don't want to see the reputation of a quality brand suffer from false or questionable allegations.

[thecustomer]

Yes agree PTG; certainly don't want to or like bashing a particular brand. All of these guys are doing a great job and deserve all kinds of accolades. I am simply going by the research I did on this forum regarding Helson.

I read one thread that involved a customer who is a diver and used their watch on his dives. His claim was that the Helson divers were not mean't to be used as a true dive equipment. Another Helson customer mentioned that he had leak issues in his swimming pool on two Helson watches; the original and the replacement.

All of these incidents can be anomalies and similar issues can occur with any other brand in any price range, so I'm not necessarily using this as an exclusive argument against Helson. All I was trying to say is that at $1299 price point and with these types of recent issues, I just personally prefer to take a pass on Helson and look elsewhere.

[thecustomer]

[/LIST]The Zenton is in the $1000 - $1500 price range, but they are currently sold out of both of their bronze versions.

Thank for clarifying.

[fastward]

fastward, What do you mean by "Catalog case HK watches"? Do you mean technically deficient or less exclusive?

I agree with you at least partially. If you evaluate all of these operations against what I call the "10 distilled criteria to assess a watch/watchmaker".
Using these 10 criteria, do you truly believe that "Kazimon" stands heads and shoulders above the rest. I'm not convinced. For instance, Kazimon is not the only operation that used a single block of bronze to produce a casing; they all do it that way. It is the standard operating procedure for case manufacturing no matter what material is used. After-all the alternative would be to glue/weld pieces together and I am quite confident that the others are not doing that. They may outsource the process and Kazimon may do it in house but that doesn't change the process.

I do however agree that Kazimon and Kaventsmann and for that matter Zenton are unique in a sense that they are small boutique operations which brings exclusivity to their products. They may not produce a technically better product or offer a higher level of service, just a more exclusive product by virtue of being a smaller boutique operation. I don't think others are technically deficient, in fact I think they have more "business smarts" than our exclusive boutiques above.

Thoughts?

From an exclusivity standpoint, the majority of the watches listed are made by one factory in HK and typically share the same case and the same movement. There really is not much to differentiate one from the other.
Kazimon and Kaventsmann separate themselves from Zenton and the rest of this group by offering something different.
I have owned a few Helsons and feel that the quality was there for the price. Peter was excellent to deal with, which is another trait that the micros typically share.

[thecustomer]

See if you can persuade vintage vdb to do a 2012 in bronze, it worked with kazimon so you never know.

Vintage VDB has a Bronze already for sale. Its called the Bullseye (below)





Its priced at $5500 Euro. That's just nuts!!! On principal I don't believe in buying watches that exceed $2500, unless its a Patek Philippe or A Lange & Sohne worth passing down as an heirloom.

[Crue4]

K.e.n.z.o. or Anonimo .... blah on the others.

[HelloNasty1]

Vintage VDB has a Bronze already for sale. Its called the Bullseye (below)

Those hands are way to small IMO. $5500 what?