Micro Brand Staying Power

[Graeme]

Sometimes it appears that smaller brands are doing nothing but we are working away in the background (well at least we are) to get our next designs out. There are long waiting periods for cases and movements, and this gets very frustrating for us too.

So I just wanted to say that we are here at sAs working away on new watches and we are planning on doing so for a long time to come.


Regards
Graeme

Sent from iPhone

[Jon Butcher]

Interesting topic; I recently bought what would be considered a 'micro brand' watch from a fellow member. The seller was very forthcoming regarding the condition of the watch, detailing swirling on strap, minor scratches etc. It's due to arrive on Weds so I haven't inspected it yet but it got me thinking that maybe I'd like to send the watch to the maker for an operational inspection and maybe a tuneup if he deemed the watch needing it. I wrote the maker and.. no reply. Granted it's only been a few days but it certainly made me wonder what my customer service experience will be like should I NEED to have the watch serviced. By the way the maker is well known and well regarded in these parts as near as I can tell.
After reading the above threads one thing stands out to me- price point. There are many watch afficianados who simply don't have the budget to buy high end pieces[ am defining 'high end' in this example as $2000.00+], and yet want to wear something other than Timex or Seiko. By the way I've had Seiko watches and readily acknowledge their value-to-price quotient.
I'm hoping I'll love my pre-owned________when it arrives, minor scratches and all. I'm hoping it'll last for 5+yrs too. But I also hope that the maker will be responsive should my new baby require some maintanance attention.
Fingers crossed.

[Ryeguy]

This is not so with respect to Omega and other Swatch products. Several WUS threads cover this issue.

True, but it is important to note this is due to a business decision by Swatch, not due to the use of some crazy unique stem-size diameter or seal thickness. Swatch is very focused on capturing the aftermarket service dollar from their customers. They are doing this through tightly managing their repair parts supply chain and making it more difficult for an owner to have a watch serviced outside of official / corporate channels - at least if you wish to use "official" parts.

[dmckean44]

True, but it is important to note this is due to a business decision by Swatch, not due to the use of some crazy unique stem-size diameter or seal thickness. Swatch is very focused on capturing the aftermarket service dollar from their customers. They are doing this through tightly managing their repair parts supply chain and making it more difficult for an owner to have a watch serviced outside of official / corporate channels - at least if you wish to use "official" parts.

Exactly, parts that aren't official will still be available and fit omega and other swatch group watches as they always have been.

[Data08]

I'm surprised by the number of replies to this thread already. I can say that I own a number of Rolex watches, all of which were gifts, and while Rolex servicing is costly, they really do a superb job. I guess you get what you pay for. I'm not sure what experience some of you have had with Swatch servicing, but my mother has a vintage Rado that was serviced at the Swatch service center in Los Angeles and they were excellent. I hope like anything else, people only buy watches they can afford. I include servicing and repairs in the price of affordability. I would say that if you can afford to buy a Rolex, you can definitely afford to service it. I guess the real point behind me starting this thread was that I hope the micro brands, especially those based in the US, don't disappear like the US watchmakers of the past. My hope is that the micro brands will survive by creating original designs, which probably wont be loved by everyone, but enough of us will like them for the brand to succeed.

[Ryeguy]

I'm surprised by the number of replies to this thread already. I can say that I own a number of Rolex watches, all of which were gifts, and while Rolex servicing is costly, they really do a superb job. I guess you get what you pay for. I'm not sure what experience some of you have had with Swatch servicing, but my mother has a vintage Rado that was serviced at the Swatch service center in Los Angeles and they were excellent. I hope like anything else, people only buy watches they can afford. I include servicing and repairs in the price of affordability. I would say that if you can afford to buy a Rolex, you can definitely afford to service it. I guess the real point behind me starting this thread was that I hope the micro brands, especially those based in the US, don't disappear like the US watchmakers of the past. My hope is that the micro brands will survive by creating original designs, which probably wont be loved by everyone, but enough of us will like them for the brand to succeed.

I am very glad you've had such great experiences with Rolex and Swatch Group's service centers. The issue being raised within the watchsmith industry is really the business decisions made by those companies to cut off the supply of official parts to independent watchsmiths. The goal of this decision is to direct you, the consumer, back to the corporate service center and thereby capture that additional revenue stream. I have no horse at all in this race, being neither a Swatch group watch owner or watchsmith, so I can look at the situation from more of an academic standpoint.

On one hand, the micro manufacturer may become the independent watchsmith's best friend. It is a symbiotic relationship since most micro manufacturers do not have large service centers, so they rely on the local watchsmith for their customer support (Steinhart, for example, will reimburse you the cost of a warranty repair if you choose to have it done locally).

I believe micros will live on. There will certainly be "churn" in the market as players drift away and new players come in, but the micro industry will remain. I see three reasons for this:
1) the internet: Watch fora such as WUS allow micros access to thousands of potential clients without ever having to invest in a global commercial supply chain
2) low cost logistics: I can, with a high degree of confidence, ship a watch halfway around the world in a couple of days.
3) low cost manufacturing technology: without getting into a debate about physically where a component is made, suffice to say I can use a low cost CAD solution such as SolidWorks to design a case and send it electonically to a machine tool anywhere in the world. Blanks can then be milled to my exact specification and I can then assemble the watch. This was unheard of 25 years ago. It is commonplace today.

I will always have a soft spot for the "big brands". I admire the innovation of companies such as Seiko with their Spring Drive technology. It is this type of technical innovation that would push me toward a "big brand". For a pure mechanical watch with a standard off-the-shelf movement, micros can give you a lot for your money (just choose wisely - not all are created equal!)

[PloProf Pimp]

Quite some time is better than never, and fixing an over-priced watch is obviously subjective. Over-priced is in the eye of the beholder or the wallet holder if you will.

Exactly, and much ado about nothing (the sky is falling) as usual. I have owned every micro brand released in the last ten years, so I have actual hand's on experience with them. And I have owned many Omega, Seiko, Rolex, Certina, Zodiac, Heuer, and other vintage 35+ year old watches that I bought from the original owners. There were quite a few that I bought for less than $1,000 over the last ten years. And many of those had never been serviced (whether it be a minor or major service or repair) during that entire time, even though as a rule of thumb, you are supposed to have a dive watch serviced every five years or so. The owners treated them properly, and they ran accurately and performed great for over 30 years because of it, and also because they weren't owned and mishandled by 20 different guys.

Many of those decades old vintage watches were beat to hell with serious WABI, others were NOS safe queens. But they all worked because they were quality watches that housed proven and genuine movements, and were all designed and built by the Swiss, German, and Japanese masters. So you do not have to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to service a Swiss, German, or Japanese watch over a 35+ year lifespan.

And many here, never even keep a Swiss, German, or Japanese watch that long anyway, as this is a confederacy of flippers. But, the fastest way to have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on repairing or servicing a Swiss, German, or Japanese watch (much less a Chinese watch over the course of a few decades), is by buying one that has been flipped a bunch of times. And most watches sold on these forums, have indeed been flipped a bunch of times, and handled by many different owners with varying knowledge and abilities in terms of horology, and proper operation of a fine timepiece.

And like I have said previously, when we reach the point where all the Asian micro brands have been in business for 20 or 30 (much less 100) years, then we can compare apples to oranges. And that's when we will see where their unproven durability, design, and longevity rank against the Swiss, Germans, and Japanese (Seiko). I've worn many a $200 to $500 Seiko that were of far better value and build quality than many Chinese micro brands.

[Renisin]

Read the entire thread, and it has been pointed out that all is relative, that the more you spend the more you get! Hog wash!!!!! A two thousand dollar watch is not highend,for that matter rolexs and omegas are not highend watches,if you don't believe me go to the highend watch forum and ask them!!

What we have here is a simple,I spent more money so I got more watch,no sir what you got was a name brand,that sold you abill of goods. You bought into the name brand recognition,it cost you thousands more but did you really get something better? I say its not about anything more than value perceived,and in that case we all win, because no matter which watch we bought we got our dollars worth,maybe not the point of view from the guy on the other side of the table,but never the less we got our dollars worth!! Until you get to the really expensive watches(30,000 and up)you are really splitting hairs in the difference between many of these watches.

CHOW

Ps. Brands like Stowa, Sinn, Damasko have successfully made the transition from micro brand to say a middle size company,nolonger a business run by mom and pop. So there are examples of micros becoming very established in the market. I would buy from them without hesitation!


PSS. Another thing is, it is hard for a person who spent 10000 dollars on a watch, to wrap their head around the thought that someone could spend a quarter of that amount and end up with a watch that is every bit as good,as good looking,keeps as good or better time and will hold up over time just as well!!!

[Ryeguy]

And like I have said previously, when we reach the point where all the Asian micro brands have been in business for 20 or 30 (much less 100) years, then we can compare apples to oranges. And that's when we will see where their unproven durability, design, and longevity rank against the Swiss, Germans, and Japanese (Seiko). I've worn many a $200 to $500 Seiko that were of far better value and build quality than many Chinese micro brands.

I don't mean to only partially quote you, but I wanted to point out one thing in this statement. Where the micro is located, or more specifically where the case was machined, is far less important to me than the care that was taken during the assembly and QC process. Many of those $200 - $500 Seikos were likely assembled in China or Malaysia, but Seiko has excellent quality standards. There are micros from both Europe and Asia that suffer from poor QC and those that have excellent QC. Just like everything else in this world, do your research and be an educated consumer.

[Sodiac]

Every company in the world started off as a micro company pretty much. then it all boiled down to whom had the staying power, to blossom into the mega companies.
Fixing things in years to come? if it is built by man then it can be fixed by man, whether or not the original company exists or not.

How about if it was built by a woman?