A very unpopular question about Micros

[danielk]

[Renisin]

I will behonest and tell you that my experience is some what limited, but what I have found is that if you buy after careful research you will have bought well! I have a Stowa Prodiver and it is as close to perfect as they come. The indice line up,print on the dial is fantastic,it keeps great time(3 seconds fasr per day)! The customer service is better than anything you could get from the major brands and that includes Seiko,IWC,Omega,Rolex so on.


I am now getting ready to make another watch purchase,I have done most of my home work and have found a great watch that has everything I need. Its case is made in Germany,its movement is made in Switzerland and it is a US held company! It has a history all its own and it in my opinion is one of the best looking watches out there, it is the AQUADIVE WATCH CO.

This is my Stowa ProDiver and it has never let me down,no problems, not one!

[Raoul Duke]

[Rojote]

Does replay sound familiar to anyone. OP stop the masterbation and spewage of what I do not know... Go buy your used name brand since it took forever to get it out...lol. ;)

[Etowah]

So if you look at the above I wonder why these things cost between 1 and 2K? i would think the $200 to $300 range would be more accurate but then again owning my own company i understand how a nice profit is a good thing. I would challenge any micro brand manufacturer to make the same quality watch as lets say the Seiko monster at the same price point or even close to the same price point not going to happen.

If you are a business owner you should understand economy of scale. A small co. can't make 200 watches at the same price for what Seiko can for a run of 25,000. And when does a $200.00 Seiko come in a hard case with 2 straps, 2 bezels, & tools?

[pcmxa]

I would need to know the specs on the fake and have a visual comparison of some sort to even begin to answer that question. I don't know what are in fakes in general, but in the two I have seen recently, the movements were very low beat and didn't hack. The casework was incredibly cheap and the polish and brushing just atrocious. In fact, one had a glossy finish that resembled plastic more than metal. I haven't seen any micro brand with that low of quality. So if you are comparing it to them, then a huge difference, even in the homage end of things.

But really the problem is that you are casting aspersions through association when you don't name the particulars of the case. Essentially you are saying micro = homage = cheap fake, but posting it as a question. Some fakes are cheap, some homages are basically rebranded copies, some of these are made by micro brands, but you can't go the opposite direction. Not all micros make homages, nor are all homages rebranded copies.

You have handled some number of micro brand watches, from this you are extrapolating to all micro brand watches and attempting to cast the entire genre in a bad light. What is not fair is slandering an entire market segment based on just the watches you have handled. So it is completely reasonable to ask which makes and models you are referring to. You got bad watches. You have a right to state that. No one would think that is unfair. What is unfair is to say you got bad watches therefore all watches made by a company under a certain size are bad. It is the equivalent of saying that because your Toyota suffered a recall all asian owned car companies produce an inferior product.

Actuallythis is my 1 and only I'd on here but that means nothing to you sir I have seen you fly this flag before so given the fact that you simply deny my post and ask for facts and names makes you somewhat bias so be it but read my post again you will see facts just not to a specific brand. Naming brands would be foolish and unfair since I am stating my own opinion based on observed facts. The question still stands what is the difference between a mico homage and a fake other than a logo ?

[Renisin]

Yea, What he said!!!

I would need to know the specs on the fake and have a visual comparison of some sort to even begin to answer that question. I don't know what are in fakes in general, but in the two I have seen recently, the movements were very low beat and didn't hack. The casework was incredibly cheap and the polish and brushing just atrocious. In fact, one had a glossy finish that resembled plastic more than metal. I haven't seen any micro brand with that low of quality. So if you are comparing it to them, then a huge difference, even in the homage end of things.

But really the problem is that you are casting aspersions through association when you don't name the particulars of the case. Essentially you are saying micro = homage = cheap fake, but posting it as a question. Some fakes are cheap, some homages are basically rebranded copies, some of these are made by micro brands, but you can't go the opposite direction. Not all micros make homages, nor are all homages rebranded copies.

You have handled some number of micro brand watches, from this you are extrapolating to all micro brand watches and attempting to cast the entire genre in a bad light. What is not fair is slandering an entire market segment based on just the watches you have handled. So it is completely reasonable to ask which makes and models you are referring to. You got bad watches. You have a right to state that. No one would think that is unfair. What is unfair is to say you got bad watches therefore all watches made by a company under a certain size are bad. It is the equivalent of saying that because your Toyota suffered a recall all asian owned car companies produce an inferior product.

[Diverrad]

If you are a business owner you should understand economy of scale. A small co. can't make 200 watches at the same price for what Seiko can for a run of 25,000. And when does a $200.00 Seiko come in a hard case with 2 straps, 2 bezels, & tools?

How much do you really think thy are spending on cost? Perhaps $100 at most.

[RWBurge]

I would need to know the specs on the fake and have a visual comparison of some sort to even begin to answer that question. I don't know what are in fakes in general, but in the two I have seen recently, the movements were very low beat and didn't hack. The casework was incredibly cheap and the polish and brushing just atrocious. In fact, one had a glossy finish that resembled plastic more than metal. I haven't seen any micro brand with that low of quality. So if you are comparing it to them, then a huge difference, even in the homage end of things.

But really the problem is that you are casting aspersions through association when you don't name the particulars of the case. Essentially you are saying micro = homage = cheap fake, but posting it as a question. Some fakes are cheap, some homages are basically rebranded copies, some of these are made by micro brands, but you can't go the opposite direction. Not all micros make homages, nor are all homages rebranded copies.

You have handled some number of micro brand watches, from this you are extrapolating to all micro brand watches and attempting to cast the entire genre in a bad light. What is not fair is slandering an entire market segment based on just the watches you have handled. So it is completely reasonable to ask which makes and models you are referring to. You got bad watches. You have a right to state that. No one would think that is unfair. What is unfair is to say you got bad watches therefore all watches made by a company under a certain size are bad. It is the equivalent of saying that because your Toyota suffered a recall all asian owned car companies produce an inferior product.

Maybe I can add a calmer note to this subject that comes up a lot. I have experience with companies that do precision machining (ISO certified, MilSpec etc.) and I broker transactions where owners are looking for the exit. I have also seen a lot of machine companies fold. When they do so their CNC mills and lathes are liquidated to every corner of the globe. CNC machining can be just as accurate and precise throughout the world and there is absolutely no reason a Chinese producer cannot make just as fine a case as a German one. You will in fact find many German watch companies that source out critical parts in Asia. It is my understanding that Stowa, for instance, admits to this freely. All they need to do is QC them on arrival to make sure their specs are exact. If they are, they are as good as if they were made in-house.


But, the larger point is that nearly every watch company is an assembler of others' parts. Few companies make everything under their own roofs. Micros compete on a level field and probably gain advantage because they don't flush cash down the shameless marketing toilet. Anyone can make a crappy watch as easily as a good one. Just be attentive to the actual experiences of those who own them for guidance.


That said, I have yet to pay more than $300 for a decent dive watch and I actually dive with them. Mine have never leaked and they generally keep time within COSC standards after I fiddle with their adjustments a little. While I have been trolling these pages for a long time looking for my grail (which I haven't yet found) I include all well regarded micros in the hunt and I can draw my own informed conclusions about which are good based on the feedback I see from everyone here.


It's not all smoke and mirrors.

[hidden by leaves]

Now finally all the above mental masturbation comes to the actual question:
What is the difference between a micro brand homage to a classic watch and a good quality replica other than the micro will use their own logo? In my opinion next to nothing they both use the same ETA movement, case, crystal and are made in the same factory they just get different logos. So is a micro just a legal copy?

Feel free to flame on but think about it you know I'm right for the most part.

These really aren't very sensible questions regardless of your experience and opinions of these watches. You are comparing two things that are fundamentally different.

If you wish to talk about the quality of a micro, you must compare it to the quality of some other watch. This has nothing to do with branding or logos.

The matter of "their own logo" or not has nothing to do with the quality of a watch, each of which must be taken on its own merits as to its actual quality as a timepiece.

On the second question, which is unrelated to the first, "is a micro just a legal copy?", the main thing I have taken from the ad nauseam discussions around the relationship (or not) between homages and fakes is simply this: fakes intend to deceive, homages do not. If you do not understand that I can't help you. If you understand that but choose to incite inflammatory discussion anyway, I have no interest in you.

Either way, enjoy your stay.

Cheers,
HBL