What are your reflections on the current pre-loved market?

[Mr.Boots]

We all have various sales fora bookmarked, and I'm sure that some of us, me included, visit them numerous times a day looking for the bargain of all times.

Despite signs of an improving economy here in the USA, I can't help but notice that previously loved prices have majorly dipped in some instances allowing bargains to be had, and other watches have gained new resurgence.

For example: Doxa prices are way down. Have they lost their cachet, did the summer price break flood the market, or so many of us finding more necessary needs to spend our money on? (No vitiol needed here; it is not my intent to start a bashing thread. I love my Doxas and the company has been good to me in terms of service and communication)

Vintage Seikos, 6309s and 6105s, seem to be skyrocketing even higher than they did about four years ago before their prices crashed back to earth. They were cheap, then they weren't, then they were again, now they are up again. Have they been re-discovered by a new generation of WIS, have they been deemed a better investment than the stock market, are guys and gals just completing a well-rounded collection with choice pieces? Are those who have modded them going to be castigate for "destroying treasured vintage pieces" as they were a few years ago? I've noticed that as an example M-G SARs, a great watch IMHO, couldn't be re-sold for anywhere near their worth a couple of years ago are now being snatched up for relatively higher prices. Rolex prices, in general are down, except for certain models.

New company watches that would have vigorously flipped in the past are lanquishing on the boards. Is it too many new watches flooding the markets, not enough cash to satisfy curiousity and then flip on to the next one, or are they too similar in many cases with the same basic case and giant orange minute hands? Are they too expensive first-hand, and therefore, too expensive second hand unless they are being given away? Has the fact that some companies, both large and small stopped transferring warranties added to the decline of desire for used watches?

Again, these are thoughts that I've had as a long-time buyer and seller, as a guy who has found that far fewer watches excite me these days, and as a guy who has bought a condo in our personal paradise in Florida and is involved in setting up a second household. We're not rich mind you, we've just decided that we'd enjoy a chunk of our remaining savings by living in them rather than agonizing over the market ups and downs.

I'm not trying to dis any particular company or style of watch, but as a hobbling geezer, I'm not as subtle some times as I used to be. So apologies in advance if I've insulted someone's favorite watch, and again, please don't turn this into a bashing of any particular company. Bashing them all is at least democratic.

[Bolaberlim]

IMO, and because my budget is short, I've been buying pre-owned watches. I did buy a brand new one a couple of months ago, and regreted the purchase. It is conforting to open a new box and owning something that was never owned before, but it's a fleeting emotion, and after that initial thrill, all you have is the watch, and for all purposes, it's no longer new.
So what happened is that I bought a new one, and a few weeks later bought the exact same watch in a diferent color at half the price of a new one, with no box, but flawless in every way. What did I lose? The thrill of opening a brand new box, what did I win? half the price of that particular watch. It's a good trade IMO... in cases where a particular watch has a very high value in the second hand market, it's probably justifiable to go for a new one. The condition of the watch is also a factor. Right now, I go for pre-owned, in the future- who knows?

[Dr. Robert]

At the present time it seems to be a "buyer's market" for pre-owned watches.....I've bought 5 watches this year....all pre-owned, 4 from US folks, one from a Hong Kong guy.......3 vintage watches, a rare JDM watch, & one that was bought new & worn a month! I am very happy w/ prices paid for them.............I stole them! If I had more disposable income...the prices on used Rolexes are very low now.

[sunster]

I tend to buy pre-used and believe its always worth haggling to get the best price possible. Watch prices from various brands over the past few years, like house prices, were way over valued imho and the recent values probably reflect more realistic price points. (If watch companies can sell the same watches new for way less then why weren't they doing so in the first place. The Doxa T graph is a good example.) You mentioned Doxa, but I've seen other watch companies being discounted hugely as well in the AD shop windows. Begs the question, what the watches are actually worth as I'm asuming there's still a profit being made.

For those of us who love this hobby and lucky enough to save a few $$ out of the wage packet these are good times.
For example this week I got this Seamaster Black Bond quartz in new condition from the sc for approx $900. I'm very pleased.

[Nehoc]

Hi, Mr. Boots!

My take on it is that it's a result of the lag, call it inertia if you will, between the emergence of many new brands/models in the few years prior to the economy going down, and the fact that the economy is now down and has been for long enough for that reality to actually kick in.

Up to 2007, many brands, boutique or not were created, myriads of new models emerged, whether they were worth the money or not isn't even relevant, it's just that the demand was there, so the offer reached up to it. Now that the demand has dwindled significantly, it's all down to the real McCoy of Collectordom. Which is why, I think, old Seikos are skyrocketing again.

So the not-so-desirable watches, or the niche watches are just being neglected, and due to the low demand, prices drop. Also, I suspect that a lot of sellers actually need the cash, more so than before, and they are maintaining the sale, even if it ends up being a steal, because they can't really do otherwise.

Also, I think that the really high-end buyers haven't been hit as hard. In my company for example, nobody was laid off in the higher levels, but hundreds got let go at lower levels. I think it reflects the demography of the victims of this economy. So people who can afford to spend 10 grand or more on a watch, well... Still can. But the bulk of the people, those who typically could afford to pay perhaps $1,000 dollars or so every now and then for a watch, I think these were hurt real bad. If not directly, at least in theory (I mean, I know good people who got laid off twice in just a few months, so try to think "Job Security" after that!). So they either can't or won't spend the money because they have other priorities.

Well.. That's my take on it. I'm sure other people might disagree or have things to add, though.

Dan

[sunster]

Hi, Mr. Boots!

My take on it is that it's a result of the lag, call it inertia if you will, between the emergence of many new brands/models in the few years prior to the economy going down, and the fact that the economy is now down and has been for long enough for that reality to actually kick in.

Up to 2007, many brands, boutique or not were created, myriads of new models emerged, whether they were worth the money or not isn't even relevant, it's just that the demand was there, so the offer reached up to it. Now that the demand has dwindled significantly, it's all down to the real McCoy of Collectordom. Which is why, I think, old Seikos are skyrocketing again.

So the not-so-desirable watches, or the niche watches are just being neglected, and due to the low demand, prices drop. Also, I suspect that a lot of sellers actually need the cash, more so than before, and they are maintaining the sale, even if it ends up being a steal, because they can't really do otherwise.

Also, I think that the really high-end buyers haven't been hit as hard. In my company for example, nobody was laid off in the higher levels, but hundreds got let go at lower levels. I think it reflects the demography of the victims of this economy. So people who can afford to spend 10 grand or more on a watch, well... Still can. But the bulk of the people, those who typically could afford to pay perhaps $1,000 dollars or so every now and then for a watch, I think these were hurt real bad. If not directly, at least in theory (I mean, I know good people who got laid off twice in just a few months, so try to think "Job Security" after that!). So they either can't or won't spend the money because they have other priorities.

Well.. That's my take on it. I'm sure other people might disagree or have things to add, though.

Dan

Very nicely put Dan.

[jason_recliner]

For whatever reason, Rolex prices are definitely low. They would be the 'smart' buys right about now.

I have no idea why Rollies are cheap, and old Seikos are expensive. What's the deal with that?

With regards to Doxa, a couple of years ago everybody wanted 'funky' 60s and 70s styles, typically with some colour. Sound familiar? Now, cassic conservative styles are becoming more popular, and black is back for a lot of people. This shift in tastes has been reflected in certin 'funky' vintage pieces from other brands sitting around for a long time on shop shelves, such as Longines and Yema chronos and the like. Shops in Australia were, and in some cases are still trying, to charge AUD$3-4k for this stuff. Now, when it shifts, they aren't replacing it. They are just buying up subs, dwellers, DJs, speedies, Panerai, and a smattering of classic Heuers, Zenith, and other recognisable high end vaguely iconic pieces. Stuff that is easy to shift and has a commonly accepted value, in other words.

I didn't realise old Seiko prices had previously risen, and then fallen,and now were high gain. I thought it had just been a steady climb. :oops:

As someone who has just paid way too much for an old Seiko, I hope they are not about to plummet. At any rate, I'm not about to sell so it's a moot point for me.

Like I said, the 'smart' watch purchases right about now are old Rollies. But the heart doesn't always follow the head, and anyway I can't help but think that if we're just investing then shares are a better bet than nearly all watches right about now. And I don't know which watches are the exeption to that rule, or I'd be buying them instead of shares!

So that's the 2nd hand market from my perspective. The next question is... what is the next big thing? I don't know a lot about watches from the 80s and 90s. Are these going to come back? Any particular highlights from those two decades?

We all have various sales fora bookmarked, and I'm sure that some of us, me included, visit them numerous times a day looking for the bargain of all times.

Despite signs of an improving economy here in the USA, I can't help but notice that previously loved prices have majorly dipped in some instances allowing bargains to be had, and other watches have gained new resurgence.

For example: Doxa prices are way down. Have they lost their cachet, did the summer price break flood the market, or so many of us finding more necessary needs to spend our money on? (No vitiol needed here; it is not my intent to start a bashing thread. I love my Doxas and the company has been good to me in terms of service and communication)

Vintage Seikos, 6309s and 6105s, seem to be skyrocketing even higher than they did about four years ago before their prices crashed back to earth. They were cheap, then they weren't, then they were again, now they are up again. Have they been re-discovered by a new generation of WIS, have they been deemed a better investment than the stock market, are guys and gals just completing a well-rounded collection with choice pieces? Are those who have modded them going to be castigate for "destroying treasured vintage pieces" as they were a few years ago? I've noticed that as an example M-G SARs, a great watch IMHO, couldn't be re-sold for anywhere near their worth a couple of years ago are now being snatched up for relatively higher prices. Rolex prices, in general are down, except for certain models.

New company watches that would have vigorously flipped in the past are lanquishing on the boards. Is it too many new watches flooding the markets, not enough cash to satisfy curiousity and then flip on to the next one, or are they too similar in many cases with the same basic case and giant orange minute hands? Are they too expensive first-hand, and therefore, too expensive second hand unless they are being given away? Has the fact that some companies, both large and small stopped transferring warranties added to the decline of desire for used watches?

Again, these are thoughts that I've had as a long-time buyer and seller, as a guy who has found that far fewer watches excite me these days, and as a guy who has bought a condo in our personal paradise in Florida and is involved in setting up a second household. We're not rich mind you, we've just decided that we'd enjoy a chunk of our remaining savings by living in them rather than agonizing over the market ups and downs.

I'm not trying to dis any particular company or style of watch, but as a hobbling geezer, I'm not as subtle some times as I used to be. So apologies in advance if I've insulted someone's favorite watch, and again, please don't turn this into a bashing of any particular company. Bashing them all is at least democratic.

[HelloNasty1]

Economy is still in shambles, jobs still being cut, unemployment at a recent all time high. This all makes for a great secondary market, if you can afford to play.

[2manywatchez]

This one's worth bringing back around. It's been almost a year since this thread and several of the points still remain relevant. Anything different? New perspectives?

[Dichro Chrono]

This thread is still completely relevant. I don't know about the classic/vintage Seiko market specifically, but there are still many many good deals to be had on used watches right now.