Early Generation Komandirskie's
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  1. #1
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    Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Comrades,

    I've noticed that while there have been a few individual discussions as to early-generation Komandirskie's, it is scattered across several threads. With this post, I would like to consolidate that information as sort of a master record - taking a hint from this older post: https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/vos...0m-554022.html.

    Also, I just wanted to create a post for people to post photos of their early-generation Komandirskie's for all of us to enjoy.

    Any contributions would be welcome. I am happy to maintain the albums showing examples of each type, and will add any additional photos that people want to post.

    I would like to thank comrades Afka, Amil, Geoff Adams, fcafca, Ham2, kev80e, mariomart, mroatman, OKEAH, and Schnurrp for having posted photos of their watches, which I have shamelessly stolen and re-used here. If you would like your photos removed, I would be happy to do so; just let me know. In the linked albums, I have tried to credit the photos to the original poster; if someone wants to claim a photo, again, just let me know.



    First Generation

    It has been widely accepted that first generation Komandirskie's have dials that show 12/6/9, and have equilateral triangles indices for all other hours. Fortunately, there seem to be a reasonable number of these out there to set a knowledge base. A further unique aspect of this watch is that it employs "necktie"-style hour and minute hands, which became ubiquitous on Amphibias, but were never re-used on classic Komandirskie's.

    Examples:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Example Photos Dial Color Dial Markings Hands Case Caseback Movement
    Generation 1 Komandirskie - Album on Imgur White and Black 12/6/9
    Equilateral triangle indices
    H: Necktie
    M: Necktie
    S: Arrow tip, no feathers
    Stainless Steel

    Exception: Photo Schnurrp - 2 shows gold/brass
    Radial "ПРОТИВОУДАРНЫЕ" on top

    Some show "2214" or "2234," others do not show movement number
    Most examples are 2234

    Occasional examples are 2214



    Generation 1.5(a) - Isosceles Triangles

    I believe that the next iteration maintains the 12/6/9, but the triangle indices narrow to a slim isosceles triangle.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    These appear to be much more rare - only a handful have been posted. However, we have the been fortunate enough that a (hopefully contemporary!) poster has been discovered which shows this watch:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This poster shows an extremely unique set of hands, not seen on any other Komandirskie or Amphibia, before or after. It has been speculated that the poster was fake, showing a watch that never existed; however, comrade mroatman has recently discovered a photo of this elusive timepiece:

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    I don't know the significance of this with respect to the other examples I have been able to find. I find it difficult to believe that they ALL have replaced hands, and the sword style is much more common. I also find it strange that a poster showing only one of the most rare variants of this watch would have been made, but at this point, it's all just speculation.

    I believe that these watches came next in time after the equilateral triangle examples above. The minor design variation to me is more of an incremental improvement as opposed to the re-design that we will later see. Additionally, this model appears powered by a 2214 movement.



    Example Photos Dial Color Dial Markings Hands Case Caseback Movement
    http://imgur.com/a/ANsyr White Only 12/6/9
    Isosceles triangle indices
    H: Sword
    M: Sword
    S: Arrow tip, no feathers
    Stainless Steel

    Exception: Photo mroatman - 2 shows gold/brass.
    Radial "ПРОТИВОУДАРНЫЕ" on top

    No known examples in Latin script

    All examples to date show 2214
    All examples to date are 2214



    Generation 1.5(b) - Bar Indicies; Double-Bar at 6

    The next type I wish to bring up is the somewhat more common model, showing only a 12, and bars for all other indices, with a double-bar at 6.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't have any hard evidence for this, but I believe that this iteration of watch is the contemporary of the above-shown isosceles triangle model. My circumstantial evidence is that: (a) it maintains the same hands (poster and one example aside), including the no-feather arrow-tipped seconds hand which will be replaced by the "cupid" hand in subsequent models; and (b) the isosceles triangle model has only ever been shown in white, while this example has only ever been shown in black. The earliest generation was available in both colors. My thesis is that these Generations 1.5(a) and (b) were made concurrently, to maintain stock of watches in both colors, but the changed dial design was to further differentiate the styles. Additionally, this model has been found using the 2214 movement, while the later-described style does not.



    Example Photos Dial Color Dial Markings Hands Case Caseback Movement
    Komandirskie - Double-Bars - Album on Imgur Black Only 12

    Bar indices

    Double-bar at 6
    H: Sword
    M: Sword
    S: Arrow tip, no feathers

    Exceptions: babadinga - 1 and 2 show necktie-style hands

    mroatman - 1 shows the "cupid"-style seconds hand
    Stainless Steel and Brass/Gold both seem to be about equal in number Radial "ПРОТИВОУДАРНЫЕ" on top

    No known examples in Latin script

    Some examples show movement number, some do not
    Examples exist of both 2214 and 2234




    Generation 2 - 1/12, 13/24 dial

    The next type I wish to bring up is the model showing only all numbers, 1-12 and 13-24 inside that.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I believe that this style came subsequent to the prior designs. The dial is a wholesale change over the prior design, and the seconds hand has now been replaced with the "cupid"-style.

    We have evidence for this style from a catalog:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I believe that this watch was relatively short-lived as well, and pretty soon, Vostok settled in to the ubiquitous 12/6/9 with bar indices.

    Example Photos Dial Color Dial Markings Hands Case Caseback Movement
    Komandirskie 1-12/13-24 - Album on Imgur Black Only 1-12;
    13-24
    H: Sword
    M: Sword
    S: "cupid"-style

    Exceptions: amil - 1 shows the no-feathers, arrow-tip seconds hand

    kev80e - 1 shows the no-feathers, arrow-tip seconds hand
    Stainless Steel and Brass/Gold both seem to be about equal in number Radial "ПРОТИВОУДАРНЫЕ" on top

    No known examples in Latin script

    All examples to date show 2234
    I believe that all examples to date are 2234



    I hope that anyone else with additional evidence will come forward! I would love to see an example that breaks all the rules, like a white dialed double-bar.

    Please chip in with any additional knowledge you may have, and post your early-generation Komandirskie photos for all to enjoy!

    I'd like to cite to the following forum posts as having provided the necessary info for the above:
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/first-generation-christopol-komandirskie-ca-1966-%91necktie%92-%91amphibia%92-hands-variant-1504002.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/komandirskie-chistopol-1st-generation-2214-unknown-dial-792682.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/second-generation-christopol-komandirskie-ca-1960s-interesting-scarce-dial-3828458.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/old-chistopol-komandirskie-766631.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/rare-old-christopolkomandirskie-i-have-question-about-metal-bracelet-3874034.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/komandirskie-conundrum-3450498.html


    Thank you.


    - Brian
    Last edited by bpmurray; April 28th, 2017 at 15:11.

  2. #2
    Member sideways2's Avatar
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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Fantastic...thank you!!!
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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Great work Brian

    You were right to bring all the resources together in one place and I thank you for the time and effort you have given in doing so.

    Cheers

    And here is my happy little family

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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Quote Originally Posted by mariomart View Post
    Great work Brian

    You were right to bring all the resources together in one place and I thank you for the time and effort you have given in doing so.

    Cheers

    And here is my happy little family
    Thank you! Are you able to confirm my caseback/movement information? That was the hardest to compile since really, who looks at photos of casebacks? I'd appreciate if you can post that exact same photo but showing the caseback of each watch instead of the dial!

  6. #5
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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Quote Originally Posted by bpmurray View Post
    Thank you! Are you able to confirm my caseback/movement information? That was the hardest to compile since really, who looks at photos of casebacks? I'd appreciate if you can post that exact same photo but showing the caseback of each watch instead of the dial!
    I'll see what I can do tomorrow, it's nearly midnight here on the Aussie West coast. I'm pretty sure the early Komandirskies had 2234's in them as I think all mine hack with the crown extended.
    My YouTube Channel


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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Nice work, comrade. Did you mean to say stainless steel for the case or chrome-plated brass? I don't believe I've ever seen a stainless steel case for these and I doubt Chistopol had the capability back then.

    I would also like to ask if anyone has seen this date wheel with the large single digit font. I think it looks really cool and I wonder if it's an old version. Mine hacks despite the 2214 on the back.

    Hands re-lumed by me.

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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Quote Originally Posted by mariomart View Post
    I'll see what I can do tomorrow, it's nearly midnight here on the Aussie West coast. I'm pretty sure the early Komandirskies had 2234's in them as I think all mine hack with the crown extended.
    Thank you, much appreciated! That is absolutely a fantastic collection. Now you just have to find the isosceles model with the funky cathedral hands!


    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    Nice work, comrade. Did you mean to say stainless steel for the case or chrome-plated brass? I don't believe I've ever seen a stainless steel case for these and I doubt Chistopol had the capability back then.

    I would also like to ask if anyone has seen this date wheel with the large single digit font. I think it looks really cool and I wonder if it's an old version. Mine hacks despite the 2214 on the back.

    Hands re-lumed by me.
    You are absolutely right re: chrome/brass vs. stainless steel. Oversight on my part!

    For the font, look at photo Geoff Adams - 1, Ham2 - 1, and mroatman - 1 on the album. Is that what you are talking about? It seems like there was an even mix between bigger and smaller font sizes.

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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Wow, that poster (and watch) is cool!
    schnurrp likes this.

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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Quote Originally Posted by bpmurray View Post

    For the font, look at photo Geoff Adams - 1, Ham2 - 1, and mroatman - 1 on the album. Is that what you are talking about? It seems like there was an even mix between bigger and smaller font sizes.
    Oh, I didn't notice all those very helpful photos. It appears that all but the newest of the first gen komandirskies had this date wheel design with the single digits occupying the entire window.

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    Re: Early Generation Komandirskie's

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    Oh, I didn't notice all those very helpful photos. It appears that all but the newest of the first gen komandirskies had this date wheel design with the single digits occupying the entire window.
    I would be very interested to see a date-wheel comparison of 2214 vs 2234's. Maybe therein lies the difference?

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