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  1. #451
    Member jtstav's Avatar
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    I think I may have found a possible franken on the bay. Looks like a 3aka3 Komandirskie as stated on the dial but the caseback says "Amphibia" in cyrillic. Anyone have any opinions on this?
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  2. #452
    Member JRMTactical's Avatar
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    Quote Originally Posted by jtstav View Post
    I think I may have found a possible franken on the bay. Looks like a 3aka3 Komandirskie as stated on the dial but the caseback says "Amphibia" in cyrillic. Anyone have any opinions on this?
    A watch just like that was my very first foray into buying Soviet era watches on the 'bay. I have seen more of those white dial 3AKA3 watches that are frankened than I can count. SEVERAL out of the UK from a good seller, that I once saw, and a bunch from the Ukraine ... I don't know the history of that particular dial, but you put 3AKA3 or ZAKAZ in the search string by itself and a fairly high number of these white dials will come up. This is one mystery I'd like to have solved.
    Last edited by JRMTactical; March 20th, 2012 at 04:24.
    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said "....I drank what?"

  3. #453
    Member jtstav's Avatar
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    Your getting better results than me then. I did find it this way (by putting in "3aka3" in the search field) but very few watches come up. This was the only white one I found. So I'm guessing it is indeed a franken then. Pity; the dial is actually pretty cool.
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  5. #454
    Member JRMTactical's Avatar
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    I'll give you an IDEA on what I believe the ORIGINAL version of this watch is/was supposed to be. Do a search on 'Komandirskie' on the 'bay, sort them as 'highest price first'. There's one listed for $700.00. It's not worth that by any stretch, BUT the source for the watch was an exchange from a Russian soldier to an American soldier. To me, this would be the ONLY original style that the watch came in. Specs would be a Type 349 case (TiN coated), gold hands, red/orange second hand, a TiN coated (gold color) bezel with 3, 6, 9 and 12'oclock triangle arrows with hash marks between (black color from just after the 12o'clock position to 9o'clock, then red from 9o'clock to 12o'clock. Plain case back with Cyrillic, or could have another case back i.e. 'Little Bird', etc. The ones that I've seen that can be traced back to the hands of a Russian or Soviet military sailor, soldier or airman ALL look like this. So, I believe any other case type or style (Amphibian) is a franken. NOW...let me quantify this by saying that this is my opinion based on the research I have done...nothing else. Could there also be another genuine production Komandirskie with the same dial in a 341 (chromed) case...maybe. However, every one that I've seen in other than the 349 case have subtle but distinctive variations. It is my HUMBLE opinion that there was a certain unused stock of these dials purchased by one or more individuals who used the 'ZAKAZ' markings to improve the sales chances of a particular watch...i.e. Frankenstein's laboratory. I think they took working Amphib's and Komandirskie's with 'run of the mill dials, changed the dials out with one of these "ZAKAZ" dials and put it up for auction as original. I think they were probably one of the last "ZAKAZ" runs made by Vostok before the collapse of the Soviet Union, and a Vostok worker found the dials probably just sitting around after 'the fall.' They found somebody with the money to buy them and pocketed the money. It seems strange that MANY of these white dials come from the Ukraine (not really, I'm being facetious). Anyway..to make a long story short, I've found two examples of this "ZAKAZ" that were actual 'face to face' trades from soldier to soldier after the end of the USSR, and they're all GOLD colored TiN coated, wearing the same style bezel, hands and case back. This is one that I've tried to research as best as I could and only now have I felt really comfortable writing this up and posting it. If someone has more info concerning the watches with this particular white dial, please let me know and I will research as best as I can to see if there were indeed an different variants. Whew... that was a mouthful! Hope it helps!
    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said "....I drank what?"

  6. #455
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    Quote Originally Posted by jtstav View Post
    I think I may have found a possible franken on the bay. Looks like a 3aka3 Komandirskie as stated on the dial but the caseback says "Amphibia" in cyrillic. Anyone have any opinions on this?
    This one has a new dial and hands. "3AKA3" characters are all the same size, hour hand is too wide, and second hand has lume dot too far out toward the numbers. There are several of these white dial amphibians that have been similarly faked that have shown up lately. These are worse than the run-of-the-mill frankens which, at least, are made up of actual old watch parts...my opinioin of course.

  7. #456
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    Quote Originally Posted by JRMTactical View Post
    Art, a guy with 6 total posts asked about authenticity....nht, said it was authentic. It might not be an easy thing to deal with, but whatcha gonna do, lie to the man? It's gonna happen man, it aggravates me some too, but the dude only has 6 posts....we can't 'draw & quarter' him just yet.
    I know it's more trouble but the problem could be partially solved by questioner posting screen-shots and other bits of info for analysis without posting link to the actual ebay ad. Once the newbie misses out on a good item or two he will learn to be more discreet for selfish reasons!

  8. #457
    Member JRMTactical's Avatar
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    I agree, I wish that we could have like a 3 day 'Study and Testing' period for new members. I just don't know how else it could be stopped. I hardly ever post a live link unless it's just something OUTRAGEOUSLY STUPID.... My reason has always been that it's 'free advertising' for the seller, and it's just not 'good form'. But you're definitely right...they'll post a link to something that they think is a sure thing for them to win...all the time he's just got 'sniper's' waiting for that last few seconds to plug in a certain winning bid. That usually stops the link posting.
    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said "....I drank what?"

  9. #458
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    I have one like that, bought some time ago. I'm not disputing the claim that it has a new dial but how do you know?

  10. #459
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravit View Post
    I have one like that, bought some time ago. I'm not disputing the claim that it has a new dial but how do you know?
    Of course without knowing how it was produced I suppose the answer is you can't know. You could ask the seller, I suppose.

    So you have two choices:

    1. This is a totally authentic watch never before seen that has been discovered.
    2. This is a "faked" watch that is close to known authentic ones but misses the mark.

    Just saying #2 is the correct choice...in my opinion.

    With Russian watches we need to assume "guilty until proven innocent".

  11. #460
    Member JRMTactical's Avatar
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    Re: Franken of the week...

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    Of course without knowing how it was produced I suppose the answer is you can't know. You could ask the seller, I suppose.

    So you have two choices:

    1. This is a totally authentic watch never before seen that has been discovered.
    2. This is a "faked" watch that is close to known authentic ones but misses the mark.

    Just saying #2 is the correct choice...in my opinion.

    With Russian watches we need to assume "guilty until proven innocent".
    I use Occam's Razor..(it's widely known, so I don't feel I need to explain), and particularly Bertrand Russell's particular take on it. "Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities." I have taken 'known quantities' of watches with this particular dial, and looked for any other version of the watch. The only watch with this dial that is CONSISTENTLY correct is the one I explained in my little 'write up'. So, schnurrp is correct IMHO. The watch in particular there is faked/frankened, whatever you want to call it. There is no other "CONSISTENT" version of a Komandirskie with this white dial; and it is my opinion based on a ton of research that it was NEVER a dial for an Amphibian. Also note that any 'Amphibian' version of this watch is NOT (necessarily) an Amphibian. They usually turn out to be a 2414 movement with either Amphibian or Komandirskie hands in several different styles of cases with an Amphibian back...that would, by definition, make it an 'Antimagnetic' version, YET the dial is not marked 'ANTIMAGNETIC'...whereas all others are. Just more stuff to help try and back it up.
    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said "....I drank what?"

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