An Interesting Find
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  1. #1
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    An Interesting Find

    Hi all,

    I got this Watch in a batch yesterday, I think this is a Chinese copy of a Russian watch as the Cyrillic translates I think to Red Army and so does the back, I popped the back off and the movement
    Cal points to a Chinese company called Chongqing Clock & Watch Company, but the dial I think is wrong for the watch as the Hammer & Sickle is the wrong way assuming the crown is on the right
    and not the left (on the right the Cyrillic and the logo are upside down I believe)


    Anyway I thought I would share the images of this interesting watch with you all


    Best Wishes


    Darren




    Name:  FAKE 001.JPG
Views: 318
Size:  340.5 KB


    Name:  FAKE 006.JPG
Views: 307
Size:  443.1 KB


    Name:  FAKE 010.JPG
Views: 304
Size:  435.4 KB
    Last edited by daz2e; June 28th, 2015 at 18:21.

  2. #2
    Member OKEAH's Avatar
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    Re: An Interesting Find

    Yes certainly Chinese.
    See older forum thread:

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/do-...ch-540911.html

    where everything, icluding the wrong inscription in the back, is explained

    Also the Red army was renamed Soviet Army (Советская Армия) in 1946.

    But somebody has been wearing it a lot! Interesting find, good report!

  3. #3
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    Re: An Interesting Find

    Many Thanks OKEAH for your post and your link to the older thread, I thought as much especially when I opened the back and got a look at the movement...



    My Thanks once again


    Best Wishes


    Darren

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  5. #4
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: An Interesting Find

    That's quite remarkable how similar the parts are in this watch compared to the one in that other thread; Chongqing movement, vintage steel case and caseback, vintage Chinese style dial i.e. exactly like a vintage Chinese watch but with pseudo-soviet markings added to dial and back. And either that back was a rare un-signed version or there would have been a lot of grinding needed to prepare it for re-pressing. And it looks like factory-grade equipment used, so perhaps the most remarkable thing is that the inscription is different from the other fake. It would have taken a fair bit of organising to make these fakes and I'll bet it didn't happen recently.

    If Chongqing really is the important link, then if we knew when the state-owned watch factory there closed, we might have a date for when a lot of parts and equipment would have become available for this sort of thing.
    Chascomm
    Moderator, Russian Watches & Chinese Mechanical Watches Forums
    (no, I am not going to list all my watches here)

  6. #5
    Member emoscambio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daz2e View Post
    Hi all,

    I got this Watch in a batch yesterday, I think this is a Chinese copy of a Russian watch as the Cyrillic translates I think to Red Army and so does the back, I popped the back off and the movement
    Cal points to a Chinese company called Chongqing Clock & Watch Company, but the dial I think is wrong for the watch as the Hammer & Sickle is the wrong way assuming the crown is on the right
    and not the left (on the right the Cyrillic and the logo are upside down I believe)

    Anyway I thought I would share the images of this interesting watch with you all

    Best Wishes

    Darren

    <img src="https://forums.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4476258"/>

    <img src="https://forums.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4476274"/>

    <img src="https://forums.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4476282"/>


    It is literally translated FOR ARMY ONLY / ДЛЯ АРМИИ ТОЛЬКО [dlya armee tolko], which makes little sense in Russian, but then they decided to spice it up with two spelling errors: ТОЛBГО [tolgvo]. JEEZ!!!

    Same story here: https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/do-...ml#post3958592
    Last edited by emoscambio; June 29th, 2015 at 21:33.
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  7. #6
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    Re: An Interesting Find

    Quote Originally Posted by Chascomm View Post
    If Chongqing really is the important link, then if we knew when the state-owned watch factory there closed, we might have a date for when a lot of parts and equipment would have become available for this sort of thing.


    According to this article Chascomm the plant ceased production in 1985...


    Chongqing Clock & Watch Company - Chinese Watch Wiki



    As for this one it does look very similar to the one in the other thread. This is a fake I have not seen before and thanks to input from you Guys I will now avoid these.. Many Thanks to you all


    Thank you for the Translation emoscambio it is much appreciated,


    Best Wishes


    Darren

  8. #7
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: An Interesting Find

    Quote Originally Posted by daz2e View Post
    According to this article Chascomm the plant ceased production in 1985...
    ...but it was 1985 for clocks and 1997 for watches:
    "...the company stopped all watch manufacture in 1997. All remaining land and assets were sold in 2004."

    So I would say that the parts that make up this watch were acquired either soon after manufacturing ceased (i.e. disappeared out the back door as we've seen from post-Soviet Russian factories), or else picked up in the final disposal of assets in 2004. The significant thing is that the factory closure makes both parts and equipment available to assemble complete watches with custom dials and casebacks. Errors in spelling and grammar aside, the overall quality of the custom elements of this watch are higher than normally seen in Russian/Ukranian frankenwatches.

    I would favour 2004 as the more likely date as this seems more like an ebay product than something for sale in a real-world fleamarket. As was pointed out in the other thread, the spelling/grammar errors make this an unlikely product to be sold by souvenir sellers in Russia, even if selling to foreign tourists. On the other hand, in that other thread it was claimed that the watch had been bought from an 'antiques dealer' in Hong Kong prior to landing on ebay, so maybe there is enough fascination with 'Soviet military equipment' to sell something like this anywhere in the world.
    Last edited by Chascomm; June 30th, 2015 at 04:18.
    Chascomm
    Moderator, Russian Watches & Chinese Mechanical Watches Forums
    (no, I am not going to list all my watches here)

  9. #8
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    Re: An Interesting Find

    I think there is still enough fascination with Russian but especially with Military related watches and pocketwatches, this market continues to grow and so do the prices
    I saw a german made pocketwatch complete with .... emblem sell for £1000.00 at the weekend, this watch was not in great condition and was quite worn, but was believed
    by it's owner to have been on a U-Boat, and the Buyer did not hesitate with his money. Maybe you are right Chascomm and any surplus parts and equipment may have been bought by individuals with intent to try and copy military watches
    but I think Fleamarkets would have been the ideal place to sell such watches as most people would not open the back of the watch to look at the movement to see if it was original...


    Best Wishes


    Darren
    Chascomm likes this.

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