Observations on Vostok cases ? or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

Thread: Observations on Vostok cases ? or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

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  1. #1
    Member Micha's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    I've been meaning to write this for a long time, but I finally got to it I hope this works without pictures, but although I've owned every type described here, I lost most of my pics in a computer crash I've tried to describe the watch, so that it should work without pics.



    Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch.

    I’ve started collecting watches with Vostoks, I have owned over 50 of them and more importantly read all the books on Russian watches. Here I’d like to share some general observations which should make it easier to recognise Frankenwatches. These are just observations, usually true for 98% of the time. The Russian watch industry is known for using everything available, so exceptions are always possible.

    Amphibia and Albatros.
    General: the Albatros always uses an Amphibia case and can be distinguished by Albatros written in Cyrillic on the dial. Amphibia cases always have the following in common:
    -WR 200m
    -Thicker than usual acrylic crystal
    -Stainless steel case
    -Case back with Amphibia in Cyrillic
    -No crown guard (or a small one – see later), large crown.
    -Amphibia hands: arrow hour hand and second hand with lume dot.

    Different Amphibia case types:

    Form: cushion shaped case, stainless steel
    Production: late 1970s/early 1980s
    Movements used: 2209, 2409, 2414.
    Hands: usually Amphibia, early examples with dagger hands.
    Bezel: all types used.
    Not used: automatic movements.

    Form: Octagonal shape, stainless steel
    Production: 1980s
    Movements used: 2409 (antimagnetic), 2414.
    Hands: Amphibia
    Bezel: with numerals or triangles both with one lume dot at 12.
    Not used: automatic movements, bezel with black/red dots.

    Form: Round case, no crown guard, stainless steel.
    Production: 1980s till present.
    Movements used: 2409, 2414 (seldom), 2416 (with a bulged case back to fit the movement).
    Hands: Amphibia.
    Bezel: black and red dots with or without lume dot.
    Not used: other bezel types.

    Form: round, wider case, shrouded crown, stainless steel (rare).
    Production: 1980s
    Movements used: 2409, 2416.
    Hands: Amphibia, Hour hand in the same style as the minute hand (seldom).
    Bezel: black and red dots with or without lume dot.
    Not used: any other combinations.

    Komandirskie:

    Form: Round case with crown protector, chrome or gold plated.
    Production: 1980s till 2000s.
    Movements used: 2409 and 2414.
    Hands: Komandirskie (hour hand in the same style as minute hand, red or silver second hand).
    Bezel: usually black and red dots without lume dot, numerals and triangles as well as a black bezel also possible.
    Not used: This case type probably offers the widest range of possibilities. 2416 movement was not used. No Amphibia hands.

    Form: round case without crown protectors, stainless steel. This case is very similar to the Amphibia case, yet the crown is smaller and more roundish. The case back is different too.
    Production: late 1990s till present?
    Movements used: 2416.
    Hands: Komandirskie
    Bezel: black and red dots without lume, in the 2000s some new styles appeared.
    Not used: -

    Form: cushion shaped case with crown at 2 or 3 (rare), chrome or gold plated.
    Production: 1980s till early 1990s.
    Movements used: 2414.
    Hands: Komandirskie.
    Bezel: only black and red dots without lume.
    Not used: other bezels, movements or hands.

    Generalskie:

    Form: star shaped case with crown at 2, chrome or gold plated.
    Production: 1980s till present.
    Movements used: 2414.
    Hands: Komandirskie
    Bezel: Generalskie bezel (this bezel was usually only used on this case type, in the mid 2000s some Komandirskies were produced with this bezel as well).
    Not used: any other bezels. Until the 2000s these watches were marked Generalskie in cyrillic on the dial, later they appeared with Komandirskie on the dial (in Cyrillic) as well.

    Form: round case with crown protectors, chrome or gold plated – this case looks very similar to the Komandirskie case at first glance, but it’s actually larger. The difference can be most easily spotted between the lugs. On the Generalskie case the case is not being covered by the bezel when you look from above.
    Production: 1980s till early 1990s.
    Movements used: 2416.
    Hands: Komandirskie (often combined with the second hand with lume dot), sometimes Amphibia.
    Bezel: the red and black dots bezel without lume dot.
    Not used: any other movements or bezels. These watches can be marked both Generalskie or Komandirskie on the dial.

    Junior or Cadet:

    Form: round case with crown at 2 or 3 (with crown protector), chrome or gold plated. This case is smaller than the rest at ca. 34mm.
    Production: crown at 2: 1980s, crown at 3: 1980s till present.
    Movements used: 2409.
    Hands: Dauphine style hands, second hand with or without lume dot.
    Bezel: different types.
    Not used: -
    Cheers,
    Micha

  2. #2
    Member sllee's Avatar
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    Many thanks Micha for this timely post. It would certainly help alot for those not familiar with, but keen on purchasing/collecting Vostoks.
    Really appreciate your effort.
    I guess we'll have to put in matching sample pictures to make it even clearer.
    Rgds,
    Lee

  3. #3
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    Here are some pictures.

    1980's Amphibia/Albatros:




    1990's, 2000's Amphibia:



    1980's Kommandirskie:



    1980's Kommandirskie, 2 o'clock crown:



    1990's, 2000's Kommandirskie:



    1980's Generaliskie:

    Last edited by Nick Danger; April 13th, 2007 at 18:27.

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  5. #4
    Member TZAG's Avatar
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    Thumbs Up Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    It's nice to mention all these Micha :thanks
    But I have some objections on Amphibias as I already wrote in Erik's thread. There are Amphibians in english and some automatics have antimagnetic protection.
    Last edited by TZAG; April 13th, 2007 at 20:13.

  6. #5
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    I will like to bump this thread, as I find it very informative for a newbie collector like me :)
    Parting with 30+ of my prized Soviet pieces over at sales corner.

    A fan of vintage and a proud member of the Seiko Club Singapore Forum

    Watch Blog - http://jiehong.org/blog

  7. #6
    Member ndburley's Avatar
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    Hope you do not mind but I have posted a links on my links page to this thread as it is very helpful...many thanks Micha

  8. #7
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Micha View Post
    I've been meaning to write this for a long time, but I finally got to it I hope this works without pictures, but although I've owned every type described here, I lost most of my pics in a computer crash I've tried to describe the watch, so that it should work without pics.



    Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch.

    I’ve started collecting watches with Vostoks, I have owned over 50 of them and more importantly read all the books on Russian watches. Here I’d like to share some general observations which should make it easier to recognise Frankenwatches. These are just observations, usually true for 98% of the time. The Russian watch industry is known for using everything available, so exceptions are always possible.

    Amphibia and Albatros.
    General: the Albatros always uses an Amphibia case and can be distinguished by Albatros written in Cyrillic on the dial. Amphibia cases always have the following in common:
    -WR 200m
    -Thicker than usual acrylic crystal
    -Stainless steel case
    -Case back with Amphibia in Cyrillic
    -No crown guard (or a small one – see later), large crown.
    -Amphibia hands: arrow hour hand and second hand with lume dot.

    Different Amphibia case types:

    Form: cushion shaped case, stainless steel
    Production: late 1970s/early 1980s
    Movements used: 2209, 2409, 2414.
    Hands: usually Amphibia, early examples with dagger hands.
    Bezel: all types used.
    Not used: automatic movements.

    Form: Octagonal shape, stainless steel
    Production: 1980s
    Movements used: 2409 (antimagnetic), 2414.
    Hands: Amphibia
    Bezel: with numerals or triangles both with one lume dot at 12.
    Not used: automatic movements, bezel with black/red dots.

    Form: Round case, no crown guard, stainless steel.
    Production: 1980s till present.
    Movements used: 2409, 2414 (seldom), 2416 (with a bulged case back to fit the movement).
    Hands: Amphibia.
    Bezel: black and red dots with or without lume dot.
    Not used: other bezel types.

    Form: round, wider case, shrouded crown, stainless steel (rare).
    Production: 1980s
    Movements used: 2409, 2416.
    Hands: Amphibia, Hour hand in the same style as the minute hand (seldom).
    Bezel: black and red dots with or without lume dot.
    Not used: any other combinations.

    Komandirskie:

    Form: Round case with crown protector, chrome or gold plated.
    Production: 1980s till 2000s.
    Movements used: 2409 and 2414.
    Hands: Komandirskie (hour hand in the same style as minute hand, red or silver second hand).
    Bezel: usually black and red dots without lume dot, numerals and triangles as well as a black bezel also possible.
    Not used: This case type probably offers the widest range of possibilities. 2416 movement was not used. No Amphibia hands.

    Form: round case without crown protectors, stainless steel. This case is very similar to the Amphibia case, yet the crown is smaller and more roundish. The case back is different too.
    Production: late 1990s till present?
    Movements used: 2416.
    Hands: Komandirskie
    Bezel: black and red dots without lume, in the 2000s some new styles appeared.
    Not used: -

    Form: cushion shaped case with crown at 2 or 3 (rare), chrome or gold plated.
    Production: 1980s till early 1990s.
    Movements used: 2414.
    Hands: Komandirskie.
    Bezel: only black and red dots without lume.
    Not used: other bezels, movements or hands.

    Generalskie:

    Form: star shaped case with crown at 2, chrome or gold plated.
    Production: 1980s till present.
    Movements used: 2414.
    Hands: Komandirskie
    Bezel: Generalskie bezel (this bezel was usually only used on this case type, in the mid 2000s some Komandirskies were produced with this bezel as well).
    Not used: any other bezels. Until the 2000s these watches were marked Generalskie in cyrillic on the dial, later they appeared with Komandirskie on the dial (in Cyrillic) as well.

    Form: round case with crown protectors, chrome or gold plated – this case looks very similar to the Komandirskie case at first glance, but it’s actually larger. The difference can be most easily spotted between the lugs. On the Generalskie case the case is not being covered by the bezel when you look from above.
    Production: 1980s till early 1990s.
    Movements used: 2416.
    Hands: Komandirskie (often combined with the second hand with lume dot), sometimes Amphibia.
    Bezel: the red and black dots bezel without lume dot.
    Not used: any other movements or bezels. These watches can be marked both Generalskie or Komandirskie on the dial.

    Junior or Cadet:

    Form: round case with crown at 2 or 3 (with crown protector), chrome or gold plated. This case is smaller than the rest at ca. 34mm.
    Production: crown at 2: 1980s, crown at 3: 1980s till present.
    Movements used: 2409.
    Hands: Dauphine style hands, second hand with or without lume dot.
    Bezel: different types.
    Not used: -
    Great effort!! Thanks!!:thanks:thanks

  9. #8
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    Nick Danger,I have a watch with a case similiar to the radio room case.( no that is wrong it is like the 50th anniversary of the great patriotic war watch)The difference is the lugs are covered over the case is ss and it is an 18J handwind movement with cccp on the caseback.
    Last edited by James Haury; July 31st, 2009 at 15:18.

  10. #9
    sci
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    Good post, but there is something I am still confused with - again stainless steel vs chrome-plated:


    This watch, according to your description should be "round, stainless steel case, w/o crown protection, amphibia-like". But the model code of such watches is:

    921457. Third number is "1", which means "chrome plated brass".

    Now Amphibia with same looking case (but bigger crown):

    420059. Third number is "0", which is now stainless steel.

    I saw this discussion - https://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=247839 but not final conclusion there. Can someone of the resellers help with clarification?

  11. #10
    nht
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    Re: Observations on Vostok cases – or clues how to recognise a Frankenwatch

    This model is a new Komandirskie model.

    See this: http://www.vostok-uhren.de/vostok-wa...atchuseek.html


    OKEAH Final Edition 1976-2011 Proud owner of the original watch s/n: 072/300

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