Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2 - Page 11
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Thread: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

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  1. #101
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Dear experts,

    Need your opinion about this Slava. It looks a little "too clean" to be all original. Thoughts?

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  2. #102
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by armanh View Post
    Dear experts,

    Need your opinion about this Slava. It looks a little "too clean"
    I've never seen a watch that looks "too clean". The cleaner the better, as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't see anything wrong with that one at all. It appears to be an export version of this one from an 1983 catalog:

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  3. #103
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    I've been looking for a Raketa 2609 to service for a pretty long time now (it's the tinkering part that I like the most) and so from that pov I could of course get myself any Raketa with a 2609. Nevertheless, I still want to avoid the Franken watches. No one seems to link to eBay ads here. I don't know if it's because it isn't allowed (please let me know) or to avoid getting it snatched in front of your nose. Anyway, I'll take my chances. So here it is, legit or Franken? I really like the minute indices, the hands and the style (font) of the numbers. Thank you very much!
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  5. #104
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Looks authentic.
    Here it is in a 1989 catalog: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...X8uh1XuqMDfR0E

    Although you can never really tell for sure from the descriptions, I would be looking for one described as "needs service", etc., instead of one that is described as operating correctly, "serviced", etc. It's really fun to bring one back to life (not so fun to degrade a good operating one) by your efforts.
    Last edited by schnurrp; September 3rd, 2017 at 14:25.

  6. #105
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    Looks authentic.
    Here it is in a 1989 catalog: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...X8uh1XuqMDfR0E

    Although you can never really tell for sure from the descriptions, I would be looking for one described as "needs service", etc., instead of one that is described as operating correctly, "serviced", etc. It's really fun to bring one back to life (not so fun to degrade a good operating one) by your efforts.
    Thanks! However, there are a couple of differences that notice. 1) The minute hand is considerably shorter in the catalog, 2) the Raketa logo differs, and 3) the dial in the catalog looks a bit like mother-of-pearl. I like the version on eBay better because of the minute hand, but if it indeed is a Franken I'll pass. I don't know why, but I'm a sucker for long minute hands. Most German watches have long minute hands that very precisely connects with the indices. I must have been a German watchmaker in a former life

    In my (pretty short time) experience most used Russian watches are advertised as "serviced", but when put on my Timegrapher they always seem to be in dire need of a service. Other brands seem to more often mention the need for a service, but not Russian watches. Or, is it just me?
    Last edited by VWatchie; September 3rd, 2017 at 15:14.
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  7. #106
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24 Hours View Post
    Thanks! However, there are a couple of differences that notice. 1) The minute hand is considerably shorter in the catalog, 2) the Raketa logo differs, and 3) the dial in the catalog looks a bit like mother-of-pearl. I like the version on eBay better because of the minute hand, but if it indeed is a Franken I'll pass. I don't know why, but I'm a sucker for long minute hands. Most German watches have long minute hands that very precisely connects with the indices. I must have been a German watchmaker in a former life

    In my (pretty short time) experience most used Russian watches are advertised as "serviced", but when put on my Timegrapher they always seem to be in dire need of a service. Other brands seem to more often mention the need for a service, but not Russian watches. Or, is it just me?
    You have made some careful observations, comrade, about an item for which it will never be known if it is authentic or not unless the original owner is your Uncle Igor who will swear he bought it from the special Raketa export store in St. Petersburg. That being said, to me, the variations you mention are those one might expect when comparing an actual item with multiple factory runs to its single catalog picture which does not appear to be a photograph. The main correct elements are present so to me "it looks authentic". If you're not convinced I suggest you search further. There are many, many, authentic 2609 Raketas for sale, a most successful watch movement and found in many designs.

    Good point about Russian watches being advertised as "serviced". It is possible, ironically, to find one "needing service" if you look hard enough. Not the kind of search we usually undertake.

    Good luck!

  8. #107
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    To begin with, I think they both have reproduction dials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neruda View Post
    I'm very much in two minds about Victorv's Amphibian as to whether it's a reproduction dial or a rather bleached photo.

    I believe the triangle at 12 o'clock would have started out red - but Vostok's red often fades becoming almost invisible. Do I see a slight tint of pink on the triangle? If so this might suggest the dial is indeed old.

    On the other hand, the dots marking the hours on the edge of the dial should, I think, have been spots of lume, and should be quite raised, but I don't see this texture. With age the lume also often takes on a slightly yellowish/ivory colour, and again I don't see this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_time View Post
    I'd tend to think the Amphibia is correct.

    AFAIK the faked dials of that style are those with the Cyrillic "Boctok" marking, don't recall to have ever seen any of the export version.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    I change my mind on the type 119 and agree with my esteemed comrades, the type 119 amphibian is probably correct.

    Under magnification it appears that the triangle is, indeed, faded red. A version of this dial is shown in a 1980 catalog with a red triangle: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...0qik6ebw9LFB9U

    Also to my eye the lume dots lose their regularity a bit and even acquire some shading consistent with hand-painted dots.

    I would take a chance if the price was right but otherwise I would want to see more, less over-exposed (better) pictures.

    Attachment 12475407
    Many many thaks dear comrades, really glad for your help. I have a bad photo of the lume, this 119 case with this dial it's a model that i want since time ago, but i want a 100% genuine Amphia.

  9. #108
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Here a bad photo of the lume

    Enviado desde mi ALE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

  10. #109
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Victorv View Post
    Here a bad photo of the lume

    Enviado desde mi ALE-L21 mediante Tapatalk
    It's hard to take good pictures of lume so I must ask whether, in your opinion, the lume is strong or weak. If the lume is fairly strong and useful then the dial is either a reproduction or the dial is vintage but has been re-lumed. It's ironic that poorly performing lume is a sign of authenticity since it appears the soviets never perfected the application of strong, long-lasting lume. Of course you may not mind a vintage watch dial that has been re-lumed, some do, some don't.

    If the lume is weak then there's a good chance the dial is authentic.

  11. #110
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    To begin with, I think they both have reproduction dials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neruda View Post
    I'm very much in two minds about Victorv's Amphibian as to whether it's a reproduction dial or a rather bleached photo.

    I believe the triangle at 12 o'clock would have started out red - but Vostok's red often fades becoming almost invisible. Do I see a slight tint of pink on the triangle? If so this might suggest the dial is indeed old.

    On the other hand, the dots marking the hours on the edge of the dial should, I think, have been spots of lume, and should be quite raised, but I don't see this texture. With age the lume also often takes on a slightly yellowish/ivory colour, and again I don't see this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_time View Post
    I'd tend to think the Amphibia is correct.

    AFAIK the faked dials of that style are those with the Cyrillic "Boctok" marking, don't recall to have ever seen any of the export version.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    It's hard to take good pictures of lume so I must ask whether, in your opinion, the lume is strong or weak. If the lume is fairly strong and useful then the dial is either a reproduction or the dial is vintage but has been re-lumed. It's ironic that poorly performing lume is a sign of authenticity since it appears the soviets never perfected the application of strong, long-lasting lume. Of course you may not mind a vintage watch dial that has been re-lumed, some do, some don't.

    If the lume is weak then there's a good chance the dial is authentic.
    Many thanks Comrade. It makes a lot of sense what you say, the lume I see quite powerful for a vintage watch. So I'm going to let it go and look for another

    Many thanks, really
    schnurrp likes this.

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