Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2 - Page 24
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  1. #231
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    More food for thought:

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  2. #232
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Hi all,
    the little voice has been bothering me lately about my most recent Amphibian...

    hands should match the hour marks, yes, sooo is this a stylish franken or a rare exception?
    Or am I missing something else entirely?

    Peter
    Attached Images Attached Images






  3. #233
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by chien-andalou View Post
    Hi all,
    the little voice has been bothering me lately about my most recent Amphibian...
    hands should match the hour marks, yes, sooo is this a stylish franken or a rare exception?
    Or am I missing something else entirely?
    Peter
    Hey Peter --

    Oh, but your hands do match the hour marks. Both chrome. And as an added bonus, the hand lume matches the dial lume perfectly. So I'd say your watch is 100% legit, inside and out 👍

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    Mine and the catalog for comparison (bezels varied for these watches):


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  5. #234
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dub Rubb View Post
    From what we have all gathered, do my fellow comrades feel that this one is legit aside from the lume dot on the bezel?
    In my opinion, yes, all legit with the one question mark being the lume pip on the bezel. But this could be original as well.

  6. #235
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by kev80e View Post
    The other one is actually a vremir and is a steel case and so an amphibian as indicated by the arrow hand.
    Attachment 12524139
    Yeah, definitely an Amphibia. And as this is such a unique and special export variant, I'm not sure it's the best example to use for drawing far-reaching conclusions in any direction.


    Quote Originally Posted by kev80e View Post
    Dashiell any chance you could send me the amphibian and komandirskie pdf too , I lost mine when my old computer died.
    Headed your way.

  7. #236
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mroatman View Post
    Hey Peter --
    Oh, but your hands do match the hour marks. Both chrome. And as an added bonus, the hand lume matches the dial lume perfectly. So I'd say your watch is 100% legit, inside and out 
    great, thanks, glad to say the picture doesn't do the watch honour, as it looks much better in real life!

    so I take it then, there are -generally speaking- at least two ways for the hands to match the colour of dial marks?
    a) either with the separate lume dots or lines, or
    b) with the colour embedded in the metal markers

  8. #237
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    More food for thought:
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/fra...eek-88091.html -- What's your point?




    Just kidding.


    But last one, in my opinion, is definitely a franken: Generalskie dial/hands in the wrong case. Plenty of these examples exist, they're not rare (1, 2, 3, 4). Perhaps an Amphibian version of this watch was also made, but then I would expect an arrow hour hand, wouldn't you?

    The Rising Sun is franken, too. Those black Amphibia hands have no business on that watch, in my opinion (1, 2, 3).

    I'll admit the other three look at least potentially legitimate, but they all share the same black Amphibian hands, which sometimes look out of place. So maybe they're all from the same era in Chistopol history when any sort of regulation and quality control went out the window. Or maybe Ivan was having a rough day. Or maybe they're all franken. Who knows.

    In the end, I would stress again that the features I listed could be considered "relatively firm principles" rather than hard-and-fast rules. I stand by my classifications thus far.

    But keep the contrary evidence coming, and maybe we can refine some of our 'principles' 👍


    ––––

    Edit: Oh, and speaking of looking out of place, have a closer look at this one. Silver/white indices paired with jet-black hands? Reeks of franken to me.
    Last edited by mroatman; September 22nd, 2017 at 12:32.

  9. #238
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by chien-andalou View Post
    so I take it then, there are -generally speaking- at least two ways for the hands to match the colour of dial marks?
    a) either with the separate lume dots or lines, or
    b) with the colour embedded in the metal markers
    I hope I'm not leading you astray -- this isn't any kind of "golden rule" in the Soviet watch world.

    But as a general rule of thumb, yes, the hands should have some correspondence to the hour markers. This could be in color, material, luminosity, or general style. It's one of the things that makes well-designed watches appear, well, well-designed.

  10. #239
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mroatman View Post
    But last one, in my opinion, is definitely a franken: Generalskie dial/hands in the wrong case. Plenty of these examples exist, they're not rare (1, 2, 3, 4). Perhaps an Amphibian version of this watch was also made, but then I would expect an arrow hour hand, wouldn't you?
    The reason I included that one is that it has always been around in that form, an amphibian with that dial and straight hands (also straight second hand). There have been too many examples (this one in Michelle's collection, one of the most reliably authentic collections I've seen) over the years (I use to own one also) to be a franken, in my opinion, and I included it to illustrate that exceptions, at least to the hands, do exist.

    So, your generalskie compilation based on case style and material, backs, movement seems to work but, as often happens with Russian watches, some little detail such as the hands may exist in a form that can't be explained and shouldn't be dismissed, off hand, as a "franken" necessarily. Our "expectations" aren't always fulfilled completely.

    The Rising Sun "generalskie" was in your batch of pictured examples, by the way.
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  11. #240
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    The Rising Sun "generalskie" was in your batch of pictured examples, by the way.
    Yes, I know, and I didn't mean to imply they were all perfect exemplars. A few have lumed bezels and flat crowns, too. But on the whole I think a pattern emerges.


    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    So, your generalskie compilation seems to work, but some little detail may exist that can't be explained and shouldn't be dismissed as a "franken" necessarily. Our expectations aren't always fulfilled completely.
    Agreed. Principles, not rules 🤙

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