Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2 - Page 253
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  1. #2521
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamburov View Post
    Check out the vostok logo on the chinese standard, what's that about?
    Alkor-Vostok case, bezel and back, Vostok marked Tongji movement , Vostok "Captain of Submarines" dial with Komandirskie hands.

    Unusual

  2. #2522
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    I guess I'm not the only one wandering how this got made. PanKorop articulated my original question better than me
    I've seen my fair share of tongji komandirskis, but never in that combination, and certainly never with a vostok logo stamped on the movement. Why would anyone bother? To make it look more authentic?
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  3. #2523
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by PanKorop View Post
    Greenhorn question here: is it Chinese con-artists marketing fake Vostok’s, or is it Russian artists ordering the fakes? Hen and egg, I understand, yet asking...
    A fair question. After all, a Tongji is nothing like a 2414, and the watch has a solid case back. As a piece of fakery, that movement logo makes no sense.

    Who is Alkor-Vostok? Perhaps the answer lies there:
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f10/al...k-4488911.html

    ...although that still leaves us with a Russian-branded submarine dial with "made in USSR" in English combined with a post-Soviet case and movement.
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  5. #2524
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    I'm asking for a friend because I have absolutely zero knowledge of this subject.

    First of all this is a frankenwatch, correct? That dial looks like it was made yesterday.

    How do you tell the difference between a Vympel ultra-thin 2209 and others? Is it ANY similar movement with the 1МЧЗ, МЧЗ, or Luch/Beam logo stamps?
    Not only are there other Soviet movements named 2209 that aren't related to this one, but numerous online listings are describing these as Vympel 2209s.


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  6. #2525
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24h View Post
    I'm asking for a friend because I have absolutely zero knowledge of this subject.

    First of all this is a frankenwatch, correct? That dial looks like it was made yesterday.

    How do you tell the difference between a Vympel ultra-thin 2209 and others? Is it ANY similar movement with the 1МЧЗ, МЧЗ, or Luch/Beam logo stamps?
    Not only are there other Soviet movements named 2209 that aren't related to this one, but numerous online listings are describing these as Vympel 2209s.


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    Poljot did not make a dial with slashes like that. Correct slashes should have parallel sides ending in a point not curved sides like that one. Many of these fake dials have been sold.

    One of mroatman's with correct slashes:

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    Also by the time that adjustable balance movement and case type appeared 2209s were only being made in Minsk.

    That one is a total fabrication, in my humble opinion.
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  7. #2526
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    Poljot did not make a dial with slashes like that. Correct slashes should have parallel sides ending in a point not curved sides like that one. Many of these fake dials have been sold.

    One of mroatman's with correct slashes:

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    Also by the time that adjustable balance movement and case type appeared 2209s were only being made in Minsk.

    That one is a total fabrication, in my humble opinion.
    Thanks for the reply! Mroatman's site is a very good resource but I tend to forget to check it.
    Not EVERY watch is showcased there, and I also had a hard time finding something similar in the catalogs.

    I'm somewhat confused - can you instantly tell the difference between an "ultra-thin" 2209 and other 2209 movements based on the movement markings?
    From my understanding, only the Vympel/1МЧЗ movements are the "ultra-thin" variant and the others from МЧЗ/Luch are thicker.

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  8. #2527
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24h View Post
    Thanks for the reply! Mroatman's site is a very good resource but I tend to forget to check it.
    Not EVERY watch is showcased there, and I also had a hard time finding something similar in the catalogs.

    I'm somewhat confused - can you instantly tell the difference between an "ultra-thin" 2209 and other 2209 movements based on the movement markings?
    From my understanding, only the Vympel/1МЧЗ movements are the "ultra-thin" variant and the others from МЧЗ/Luch are thicker.
    No, I think you can say they are basically the same movement with pretty good interchangeability of parts. There are some slight differences in the initial gearing scheme between the earliest movements and the more modern ones, if I remember correctly, but bridges and balances can be swapped as well as winding gears, keyless works, etc.

    Here are some more good examples of proper dial "slashes" as shown on some very early "Vimpels" from Russ' website: https://russrussianwatches.blogspot....ultrathin.html

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  9. #2528
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    I'm puzzled & in doubt by what I see and like to have the opinions of the experts

    Bought these two VDV dials as NOS. I double checked and the seller guaranteed me that they were 100% genuine / authentic / original.

    They are as mint as mint can come. No scratches, no damage, no aging cracks, no signs of any age. In fact they look like as if they have left the factory yesterday .... and that's my problem
    I do assume that, if authentic, these dials were produced begin '90's, say 1992-1993. One would expect, like with many dials from that period, to see some cracks in the surface paint or some other signs of age. Even the copper of the dial-feet is still shiny

    Are these dials (already?) known for reproductions ? It is possible at all that these dials look like these after 25 years?
    Are there tell-tales that they are reproductions, or are there tell-tales (manufacturing methods) that they are for sure genuine?

    Hope to hear your opinion(s)
    Attached Images Attached Images





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  10. #2529
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Well there's nothing specific I can see on them to say they are reproductions, they might have been stored in perfect conditions to explain their mint condition.

    Also they might not be as early as 1992-93, Vostok marking of dials with " Made in Russia" (in Cyrillic) might have started as early as 1995 but there are lots of dials around with no country of origin used much later and as late as 2002 so they might not be as old as you think.
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Avidfan View Post
    Well there's nothing specific I can see on them to say they are reproductions, they might have been stored in perfect conditions to explain their mint condition.

    Also they might not be as early as 1992-93, Vostok marking of dials with " Made in Russia" (in Cyrillic) might have started as early as 1995 but there are lots of dials around with no country of origin used much later and as late as 2002 so they might not be as old as you think.
    Thanks Avidfan; I certainly didn't know that dials were produced with no country of origin as late as 2002 ........ this is nice to know and another learning

    Since these dial could be as late as from 2002, that begs to question in which cases I can put them to be (still) of the "correct" (prolonged) period? Both sets of hands possible; Komandirskie & Amphibian?

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