Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2 - Page 29
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Thread: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

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  1. #281
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by NuttySlack View Post
    I just acquired a 17 jewel Poljot. It's in suspiciously good nick, but the thing that struck me was the missing second hand. I didn't notice this in the listing. I opened the back up and found a 2614.2H movement, again very clean.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
    Just because a watch is in good condition does not mean it's not authentic. There are plenty of authentic Russian watches out there in very good to mint condition. On the other hand a seller may "construct" a watch using the best parts from several watches to arrive at something to sell. I don't know about yours. The second hand is obviously missing, which it should have. The case and dial combination is plausible but I would prefer to see the hour and minute hands taper slightly.

    Look here for some help: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...IiPm7wtjGSZWTF

  2. #282
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24 Hours View Post
    I wouldn't mind owning this NOS Operation Desert Shield, but I have a few questions and a concern about it.
    Attachment 12545745
    1. Is it legit?
    2. Is $450 a reasonable price? If not, what would be? I feel it's a lot of money, and I'm not sure I'm ready to pay it even if it is reasonable.
    3. The movement appears to be a 2416B (31 ruby jewels), but the oscillating weight says 21 jewels as do the case back. As far as I understand this doesn't pose a problem as the reversers' jewels weren't counted in those days, or they were steel rollers? Anyway, for $450 an authentic movement is an absolute requirement.

    I must say, I really like that sand colored lume!

    Thanks!
    Looks entirely legit to me although the lume did not start out "sand" colored. That is a high price for that watch but if you're going to over-pay might as well be on a possible "NOS" example. Ironically, it can be easier to buy authentic and cheap from a seller who doesn't normally sell watches. In this case, I would make a low offer in an effort to get a negotiation going.
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  3. #283
    Member Neruda's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Looks to me to be a very nice example of the original run of these, made for Timepeace the American company which commercialised these in the USA. However, the price in my opinion is pure speculation - maybe I'm out of date, but I feel that with patience you could pick up one for under US$200. From time to time examples turn up in the US which might have a stronger connection to the conflict. I don't think the original sales by Timepeace were the massive success they anticipated, and I suspect quite a lot were not even delivered to the States.

    There are a lot of versions of the Desert Shield (and the small version, Desert Storm) which continued in production for at least 10 years in both manual and automatic formats. This example for example dates from 2001, but costs 135 euros: Rare VOSTOK OPERATION DESERT SHIELD WATCH cal.2446 Again, I'd say expensive for what it is.
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  5. #284
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24 Hours View Post
    2. Is $450 a reasonable price?
    It's impossible to say what the "right" price is, but in my opinion $450 is outrageously high. I would look for something well under half that cost.

    This isn't a rare design -- maybe rare in that condition, but not impossible to find as Neruda points out.

  6. #285
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    Looks entirely legit to me although the lume did not start out "sand" colored. That is a high price for that watch but if you're going to over-pay might as well be on a possible "NOS" example. Ironically, it can be easier to buy authentic and cheap from a seller who doesn't normally sell watches. In this case, I would make a low offer in an effort to get a negotiation going.
    Thanks!

    Are you sure about that? It was one of the things that really got me going! I am aware lume ages and changes in color, but I never saw another Vostok vintage dial having lume looking sand colored like that (which doesn't mean all that much as I'm not having a whole lot of experience). My guess is that it is indeed an intentional design of the dial, or do you deem that as out of question?
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  7. #286
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24 Hours View Post
    Thanks!

    Are you sure about that? It was one of the things that really got me going! I am aware lume ages and changes in color, but I never saw another Vostok vintage dial having lume looking sand colored like that (which doesn't mean all that much as I'm not having a whole lot of experience). My guess is that it is indeed an intentional design of the dial, or do you deem that as out of question?
    I can just about guarantee that Vostok only had one lume color being put on amphibians of all types at that time and that was white. What you see there is discoloration due to age and maybe storage in a humid dusty environment.

    Amphibian Vostok Desert Shield edition Automatic Soviet USSR Military watch | eBay
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  8. #287
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    I can just about guarantee that Vostok only had one lume color being put on amphibians of all types at that time and that was white. What you see there is discoloration due to age and maybe storage in a humid dusty environment.
    Agree.

  9. #288
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neruda View Post
    Looks to me to be a very nice example of the original run of these, made for Timepeace the American company which commercialised these in the USA. However, the price in my opinion is pure speculation - maybe I'm out of date, but I feel that with patience you could pick up one for under US$200. From time to time examples turn up in the US which might have a stronger connection to the conflict. I don't think the original sales by Timepeace were the massive success they anticipated, and I suspect quite a lot were not even delivered to the States.

    There are a lot of versions of the Desert Shield (and the small version, Desert Storm) which continued in production for at least 10 years in both manual and automatic formats. This example for example dates from 2001, but costs 135 euros: Rare VOSTOK OPERATION DESERT SHIELD WATCH cal.2446 Again, I'd say expensive for what it is.
    Thanks for the link! Anyway, I think I've looked at every desert storm/shield there currently is on eBay, but it's only the one I linked to that gets me going. The case back, the sand lumed dial dots, sand lumed Amphibia hands, the metal ring around the bezel pip, the "21 jewels" engraving on the oscillating weight, the fact it was manufactured for an American company, the certificate written in English... Anyway, I've made up my mind; I won't be paying $450 for it. Someone eventually will, but my guess is it will not be tomorrow.

    It's not on auction and I can't make an offer, but I could always get in touch with the seller, offer him/her something decent and maybe refer to your posts.

    Thanks, comrades!
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  10. #289
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Here's (as far as I can tell) an identical specimen of the watch on the National Watch & Clock Museum, and here's the specimen on eBay, both having "sand-colored" lume dots and hands, and they aren't the same specimen (different serial numbers). Can it really just be a coincidence? Well, I guess both could have been subjected to the same environment, but I doubt it, and then why don't we see more of this "sand-colored" lume on other vintage Amphibians from the time? What do you think comrades? Any change of mind?
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  11. #290
    Member mariomart's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 24 Hours View Post
    Here's (as far as I can tell) an identical specimen of the watch on the National Watch & Clock Museum, and here's the specimen on eBay, both having "sand-colored" lume dots and hands, and they aren't the same specimen (different serial numbers). Can it really just be a coincidence? Well, I guess both could have been subjected to the same environment, but I doubt it, and then why don't we see more of this "sand-colored" lume on other vintage Amphibians from the time? What do you think comrades? Any change of mind?
    Here's something that may help you in your quest https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/2938...f=sr_gallery_8

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