Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2 - Page 45
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Thread: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

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  1. #441
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by kalvinoz View Post
    Hello everyone - seeking your expert opinion on this Sturmanskie 17j. I've been looking for a piece like that in not a terrible state, but have some doubts about this one:
    - the hour and minute hand are either new or have been relumed (is it possible to tell the difference?)
    - the case looks a bit too clean/polished compared with the condition of the dial
    - most worryingly, the Geneva stripes appear to not be present on all plates

    On the bright side:
    - the crown looks the right shape
    - the dial shows age (faded red, greenish edges, faded loom)

    Finally, what's the going-rate for a watch in this condition (assuming it's mostly legit)?

    Attachment 12636781
    Attachment 12636785
    Attachment 12636787
    The hands, first of all, need to be blued. Since the Gagarin shares so many parts with the ordinary sportivnie sometimes non-blued hands are used from a sportivnie. Do the hands glow? If they do, it's been re-lumed. The color of the hand lume and dial lume should be fairly close. On that one they're not but the discoloration of the lume at the base of the hour hand indicates some age so it's hard to say for sure. I think it would be best, also, that the second hand be long enough to reach into the second marks on the perimeter.

    It's hard to comment on the case without some more pictures but it's quite possible that the case was moved from a nicer sportivnie, impossible to say. These cases can be re-chromed but that would be obvious.

    From what I can see, the movement looks fine. Since this is a common movement from that time any little differences could be chalked up to period repairs/replacement and could be reversed.

    A positive for this one is that on the dial the red star on the "flying bomb" has not been re-painted as is often done by sellers "dressing" it up.

  2. #442
    Member kev80e's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    What do you make of this guy's. I really like the dial but it just seems very clean.
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    ​I'm afraid one day I will die and my wife will sell my watches for what I told her I paid for them.


  3. #443
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    I rarely dismiss a dial because it's too "clean". In this case I believe that dial and hands have been moved from one of the three watches on the right of the picture below taken from the '90 Vostok catalog. Vostok had a perfect opportunity to show this dial in a 320/470 amphibian since this '90 catalog has the most 320/470 amphibian dials, but it's not there. Also lume dot on bezel has been manufactured probably from a komandirskie bezel and the magnetic shield doesn't make sense on an amphibian whose dial does not state it's antimagnetic.

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    kev80e likes this.

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  5. #444
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    I rarely dismiss a dial because it's too "clean". In this case I believe that dial and hands have been moved from one of the three watches on the right of the picture below taken from the '90 Vostok catalog. Vostok had a perfect opportunity to show this dial in a 320/470 amphibian since this '90 catalog has the most 320/470 amphibian dials, but it's not there. Also lume dot on bezel has been manufactured probably from a komandirskie bezel and the magnetic shield doesn't make sense on an amphibian whose dial does not state it's antimagnetic.

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    Also notice the crown stem showing at the edge of the dial.

  6. #445
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

    Hey!
    I have become obsessed with watches made in the USSR over the last weeks, and I have been living on ebay and around the internet just searching for watches made in the USSR. I have found some watches that I love, and I am wondering if they are good to buy. I would love to get an opinion from you guys.

    1:
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    2:
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    3:
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    This last one has had new lume put on the dial and the arms.

    To me, the clockwork in all of them look legit, but as I have no idea, and this is the first watch or watches I will ever buy in my life, and also because I hope it could be the start of a beautiful collection with great affectional value to me, it would be really nice not to spend my limited budget on something that does not have that Soviet authenticity.


    I appreciate anything that can help me to make an informed first choice.


    Best regards,
    Yurij :)

  7. #446
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yurij View Post
    Hey!
    I have become obsessed with watches made in the USSR over the last weeks, and I have been living on ebay and around the internet just searching for watches made in the USSR. I have found some watches that I love, and I am wondering if they are good to buy. I would love to get an opinion from you guys.

    1:
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    2:
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    3:
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    This last one has had new lume put on the dial and the arms.

    To me, the clockwork in all of them look legit, but as I have no idea, and this is the first watch or watches I will ever buy in my life, and also because I hope it could be the start of a beautiful collection with great affectional value to me, it would be really nice not to spend my limited budget on something that does not have that Soviet authenticity.


    I appreciate anything that can help me to make an informed first choice.


    Best regards,
    Yurij :)
    Welcome to the forum, comrade, I hope this hobby will be a lot of fun for you.

    I would only consider the third one, a classic "sportivnie" or sports watch, so named because with its hacking movement one was able to time sporting events. That one was made at the First Moscow Watch Factory (Poljot) in 1957 according to the date on the movement. It looks all authentic except for the back which is not pictured. It's a personal decision but some serious collectors prefer that their watch choices have not been re-lumed even if the appearance is a little less good.

    The other two did not leave any soviet watch factory looking like that. Somebody "constructed" them from various collected parts, so not good choices, in my opinion, unless they are very cheap and you need the parts.

    Good luck!

  8. #447
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

    Thank you so very much for your reply! Even before I own a Soviet watch it is very exciting, and I drive my GF and my friends nuts talking about the history of soviet watch factories all the time.

    This has been a great help for me, and I think I will definitely buy it then.

    Here is the picture of the back cover:
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    May I ask you opinon on this as well, comrade?

  9. #448
    Member kev80e's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    I rarely dismiss a dial because it's too "clean". In this case I believe that dial and hands have been moved from one of the three watches on the right of the picture below taken from the '90 Vostok catalog. Vostok had a perfect opportunity to show this dial in a 320/470 amphibian since this '90 catalog has the most 320/470 amphibian dials, but it's not there. Also lume dot on bezel has been manufactured probably from a komandirskie bezel and the magnetic shield doesn't make sense on an amphibian whose dial does not state it's antimagnetic.

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    Cheers Schnurrp . I had picked up on the bezel and stem and thought it had the wrong seconds hand, evidently not. Was hoping it belonged in a type 34 case . Still a really nice dial but I really don't need another project at the minute so I'll leave it.
    schnurrp likes this.
    ​I'm afraid one day I will die and my wife will sell my watches for what I told her I paid for them.


  10. #449
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yurij View Post
    Thank you so very much for your reply! Even before I own a Soviet watch it is very exciting, and I drive my GF and my friends nuts talking about the history of soviet watch factories all the time.

    This has been a great help for me, and I think I will definitely buy it then.

    Here is the picture of the back cover:
    Name:  Sportivnie back cover.jpg
Views: 138
Size:  212.1 KB

    May I ask you opinon on this as well, comrade?
    The back looks authentic.

    Were you told it was re-lumed because the lume does not look new to me.

  11. #450
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    Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    The back looks authentic.

    Were you told it was re-lumed because the lume does not look new to me.

    Yes, it actually said in the description of this watch. Then I sent seller a message asking if there were more parts that were re-done or changed, and he said that it was all original except for the lume.

    Now with your help i have found my confidence to buy, and I just placed the order. I am one excited mother bleeper, comrade schnurrp!


    Again thank you for your help! I must say I am very impressed with the level of solidarity, friendship and understanding in this forum :)

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