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Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

244K views 3K replies 196 participants last post by  EndeavourDK 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
(This is the continuation from an earlier thread : https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-894887.html
Please post here your questions to the forum community, when you suspect something wrong on a watch or just want to be sure. You will surely receive a quick answer from the many experts in different technical fields and different brands.

Do not post in the "
Franken of the week" thread that is a showcase reserved for undisputably frankened timepieces.
- the moderator)


I know Slava made quite a few versions of this style watch. But what do you think of this one?

Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Material property


Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery
 
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#1,991 ·
Depends on your priority : to have an authentic watch even if it looks worn or to wear a good looking watch looking exactly like the original one. I usually go for authenticity, but in that particular case, i would enjoy having this "brand new" sixty years old lady on the wrist.
If you prefer the first option, i still wouldn't bother to defrankenfy this one. I would sell it and look for another one.
 
#1,990 ·
Re: Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2

Bought this as a lot at an antique shop near Harrisburg, PA. Don't know that the seller knew about what he was selling, there was a Hamilton pocket watch from 1932(working) included for a total cost to $50. This one is what I had questions about. The movement is loose in the case, almost like the case is too big. Tightening the back does not fix it, neither does adding a gasket.


Sent from the gulag via carrier pigeon
 
#1,993 ·
Yet another Raketa Big Zero?
At first glimse it is a Big Zero, but it is the small Ø 34 mm straight lugs version.
The "full size" Big Zero measures Ø 39 mm.
Usually the "mini" Big Zero has a black dial with silver hands, and i have not found any pictures of a "mini" with white dial/black hands.
The dial is looking correct (fonts and indices) and is not just printet on a photocopyer, and i hope it is legit.
I found info about the "mini" in this older thread:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/raketa-big-zero-mini-size-questions-1894722.html

Photo # 1: "mini" Big zero
Photo # 2: "mini" compared to "full size" (unfortunately WRONG hands)
Photo # 3: same 2609 HA movement
 

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#1,995 ·
You were all so helpful earlier. I looked online to see if this was a dial that was reproduced. I couldn't find any examples. I also looked up Raketa examples on the forum. So, I am hoping this is legitimate. I think it would make a nice dress watch. Thank you for any advice or expertise you can share.
 

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#1,998 · (Edited)
Firstly would just like to say wow and am so impressed with the knowledge(and collections!) from many of the frequent contributors in this thread, spent much of yesterday going page by page, beginning to current end and I feel grateful for all the information and found resources |>

That said, this looks good to my untrained eye and according to this helpful bit of information:

If the movement has a sloping, beveled edge it is generally earlier. If it is beveled and there is a serial number under the balance, it is probably pre-1980. If it is beveled and has the letters SU it will be circa 1980. If it has the letters SU but doesn't have the bevel, circa 1985. If the only marking on it is the Bostok logo under the balance, it is late, perhaps circa 1990.
Movement should be correct? Also, is this a terribly rare piece or often found floating around the bay? And 50usd for such an example seems reasonable? It looks to be in great shape and I would have already jumped on it but have pulled trigger on a couple watches this month..

Thoughts?

edit: Upon further inspection it seems this balance cock has been replaced with one from an older movement..

Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery


Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Strap Fashion accessory


Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap


Clock Watch Plant Brown hair Black hair
 
#2,000 ·
Firstly would just like to say wow and am so impressed with the knowledge(and collections!) from many of the frequent contributors in this thread, spent much of yesterday going page by page, beginning to current end and I feel grateful for all the information and found resources |>

That said, this looks good to my untrained eye and according to this helpful bit of information:

Movement should be correct? Also, is this a terribly rare piece or often found floating around the bay? And 50usd for such an example seems reasonable? It looks to be in great shape and I would have already jumped on it but have pulled trigger on a couple watches this month..

Thoughts?

View attachment 13490429
It's not really a rare piece, but any russian watch in a great condition (mainly the dial) can become a rare thing. 50USD is not shocking, but not cheap either, maybe you can get a better price if you're patient.
 
#2,006 ·
Hey everyone!

Like almost everyone here I would really like to have an original OKEAH. I found this one online. Could anyone tell me if it is original?
I am pretty sure that is either a modern homage, or a re-dial. Specifically, the constant seconds disc intrudes onto the seconds index. On the originals, there was a gap.

Compare:

Measuring instrument


I am far from an expert on 3133's, so I'd wait for others to chime in. I easily could be totally wrong here.
 
#2,007 · (Edited)
This is how I spot a knock-off dial:

Gauge Measuring instrument Tool
Speedometer Tire Gauge Auto part Measuring instrument


Last tick on red scale should be positioned equally between the "1" and the "0" at "10". Authentic on the right above.

Modern replacement hands, too blunt with rectangular lume slots. Should be like these:

Art Interior design Clock


Special back is missing.

Watch Metal Watch accessory Close-up Bronze


Case may be chrome plated going by the difference in color between the ss lug pins and crown (warm) and case (cold).

Auto part Rim Wheel Metal


Should look like this:

Auto part Wheel Spoke Rim
 
#2,012 ·
Sorry Comrades, I have a question for an Spanish friend about the slava Diver; I saw one time one like this but dont remember when... its legit or franken??

Seems legit but I want your opinion. Thank you for your help
Not an expert but the dial and caseback dont seem to be from a slava amphibian. Lets wait for the more knowledgeable collectors to give a final verdict
 
#2,017 ·
#2,020 ·
Hi everyone,

Rencently I'm really interested in the 3133 Sturmanskie's especially the older ones with the airforce logo. I found this one online. I was wondering what you think, does it look correct? And if so, is it an early model or late model? What would you consider a fair price for this watch? The only problem is that the seller did not include a photo of the movement.

Thanks in advance! :)
 

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#2,021 ·
Hi everyone,

Rencently I'm really interested in the 3133 Sturmanskie's especially the older ones with the airforce logo. I found this one online. I was wondering what you think, does it look correct? And if so, is it an early model or late model? What would you consider a fair price for this watch? The only problem is that the seller did not include a photo of the movement.

Thanks in advance! :)
A decent example correct case dial and hands combination.
Really need to see the movement but looking at the font of the date I would say mid 80's, certainly worth asking for a movement pic to confirm.

Cheers...
 
#2,028 ·
Hello, I was wondering if this Poljot 2608 is legitimate. I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have. My concern is that I don't see examples for comparison. I checked Mark Gordon's site and looked for 2608 here without much success. Many thanks in advance for any information.
Not legitimate, stay away comrade!
Looks like every part of it belonged to a different watch. Actually this could be a good riddle for the more expert members to guess the exact number of watches used to put this together. I think it's at least five.
Also the dial has been artisticly redone.
Avoid!
Ivan
 
#2,030 ·
Hello comrades! Excited to bring you a recent purchase to help me research. I know that vympel and luch had many different dial variations including Arabic like the one shown here but I haven't seen any with such large indices. Is this original to the watch or a Franken dial?

Thanks!!


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
#2,031 ·
That one has possibilities although I couldn't find it in the catalogs I have available. I do have my doubts about the hands which I would expect to be simple black batons although those are Luch hands.

As a beginner my advice would be to stick to those that are pictured in catalogs to help ensure authenticity unless a cheap price coupled with good condition makes it worth a gamble. And, of course, researching a potential purchase makes more sense.
 
#2,032 ·
Hello --

Just wanted your opinion on this Poljot watch. I'm interested in making an offer, but only if the dial is not a new reproduction. Seller has a good reputation, but I'm more interested in what all of you think. As always, I thank you very much for giving of your time and experience.

Watch Analog watch Fashion accessory Watch accessory Jewellery
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Watch Analog watch Fashion accessory Watch accessory Jewellery
Fashion accessory Jewellery Brass Metal


Thank you.
 
#2,035 ·
#2,038 ·
Be grateful for an opinion on this Big Zero. Described as NOS and condition appears to validate this. At least no wear apparent. Seems to pass the major tests, hands, case, crystal but not sure about dial. Does font and spacing look correct? Specifically, сделано в cccp. Seeing lots of "NOS" examples of these right now, makes me wonder. Thanks
Analog watch Watch Clock Watch accessory Fashion accessory

Material property Clock

Analog watch Watch accessory Watch Fashion accessory Number

Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Material property
 
#2,040 · (Edited)
Not an expert, but agree with you. The nour marker triangles' hight should be approximately as much as the numbers' width. In all catalogues and authentic examples the tip of the minute hand appear to reach the tips of the triangles. No gap, as you 19 noticed.
You noticed the "sdelano v sssr" print, but check the closeup of the 3. The midsection of the 3 is also badly printed, edges that aren't supposed to be there.
Most importantly, on that closeup I can see the printer's ink printing pattern (the lines of white dots). I think I see that pattern in the 6 too.
So my humble opinion is that the dial has been done on a modern printing machine, and the print is not very even.
I may be wrong, but if it looks fake then for me it's most probably fake. Some of it may be new old stock, but the dial is just new.
Ivan

PS: Forgot my manners :) Welcome to the forum!
 
#2,043 ·
Earlier I noticed these 3 ebay vendors are or were recently offering what appear to be similar Big Zeros. Two of the three list Krasnograd or Krasnogradsky, Ukraine as location. servicevintage... shows Kiev. In the end I lack the experience to judge authenticity here. Just different than what I'm used to seeing.

vendor - blymba
Men`s Soviet Russian RAKETA BIG ZERO watch 2609.HA

oldwatch2015
NEW N.O.S Men`s Soviet USSR watch RAKETA BIG ZERO 2609.HA

servicevintagewatches2012
Men`s Soviet Russian RAKETA BIG ZERO watch 2609.HA USSR ORIGINAL
 
#2,044 ·
Thanks!
While soviet watch production is famous for it's quality control issues (especially during the early 90s), I don't think that's the case here. I may be wrong, but I have my oppinion. This raketa model is well catalogued and well known.
I don't think it's a quincidence that a several NOS zeros appear at the same time, from the same region and with the same dial, bearing the same inconsistencies (from the same printer, I think). Nevermind the papers. Anyone seen an authentic one of those before? There are many collectors in this forum, also members in other forums, including watch.ru.
Most importantly, on some of the closeup photos I can see the pixels of the print. It's black on white, you don't get a better contrast than that. And it's not the quality of the photo. The hands are black on white too, and the edges are smooth and even. The dial print, however is pixelated and uneven. The edges are saw like, because that's how a printer does it.
Random photo of the examples you posted, zoomed in:
Font Number Vehicle registration plate


Compare the print edges to the edges of the hands.
The original is just different. It's smoother and more rounded edges, nothing like the printer.
Clock Number Font Home accessories Alarm clock
 
#2,045 ·
Thanks!
While soviet watch production is famous for it's quality control issues (especially during the early 90s), I don't think that's the case here. I may be wrong, but I have my oppinion. This raketa model is well catalogued and well known.
Appreciate the info Here is another current ebay Big Zero listing that has the same minute hand gap appearance. Watch located in Kiev.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Men-s-Vintage-Soviet-Russian-RAKETA-BIG-ZERO-watch-2609HA-USSR/263986161048?hash=item3d76cd2598:g:sRoAAOSw8MZbrLHZ:rk:12:pf:0
 
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