Shturmanskie Gagarin.
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  1. #1
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    Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    Guys,

    New to the Forum, re Russian watches and I was wondering if this is an original watch...

    GAGARIN SHTURMANSKIE TYPE-2 KIROVSKIE SOVIET PILOT WATCH 1MCHZ STOP-SEC 17Jewls | eBay

    The seller seems to have a good reputation.

    Cheers,

    Geoff.

  2. #2
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    Hi Geoff, and welcome to the forums.

    Nope, that one is largely agreed to be bogus, though a very good knockoff. I'd keep looking.

    As always, great decision to ask here before buying.

    Good luck in your hunt!

  3. #3
    Member slls's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    It's getting harder to find a genuine one. At first the Sturmanskie logo was printed curved on the dial, so easy to see it's fake. Today we find more and more samples which are almost the same as the original. You need to zoom in to see lines are not straight. Most of the time the red colour is not faded enough, but it's just a matter of time they know how to solve that. They already managed to add old style lume in a way you really need to look twice.

    A sample which is in my opinion a printed dial. Look at the vibrant lines and the non-sharp printed "um kuboba".

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  5. #4
    Member slls's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    This, for example, is a genuine one (well I'm almost sure) except the seconds hand and the new crown which has the original shape.

    Gagarin Shturmanskie Stop-Seconda 4Q-52 WristWatch 1MChZ Soviet Vintage ж | eBay
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  6. #5
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    Quote Originally Posted by mroatman View Post
    Hi Geoff, and welcome to the forums.

    Nope, that one is largely agreed to be bogus, though a very good knockoff. I'd keep looking.

    As always, great decision to ask here before buying.

    Good luck in your hunt!
    Thanks for your comments.

    In order to further my education on the matter, can you tell me why you say it is bogus.

    Cheers,
    Geoff.

  7. #6
    Member slls's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    Ok, first of all the colour is weird and so is the lume. Red is too red.
    If you zoom in, it looks like it has the same issue as mentioned in my reply earlier, the lines are not printed straight.
    But what is most striking is the minute circle. I looks to small and that's why the ends of the hands with new lume cross the line of the circle (minute hand) and go over the hour numbers (hour hand).

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    Here is mine (2nd gen with 17 jewels)

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  8. #7
    Member mroatman's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Clubbie View Post
    Thanks for your comments.
    In order to further my education on the matter, can you tell me why you say it is bogus.
    Cheers,
    Geoff.
    All of slls' comments are correct. The deep red color, found on the mark above 12 and on the star in the bomber logo, is virtually unheard of on a watch of this vintage. Usually, the red pigment is the first to fade; even Soviet watches from the '80s often have badly faded red areas. But some authentic Sturmanskie dials have these red sections touched up, so that's not a fail-proof method of distinguishing real from fake.

    To me, the biggest giveaway is the overall color tone of the dial -- a kind of olive drab that appears artificially aged to me. Certainly, these dials age in all kinds of interesting ways and in all kinds of colorways, but never with such perfect, greenish color (at least that I've seen). Keep in mind the dial should have started as a kind of creamy/silvery white, as on slls' example.

    In my opinion, this dial was created by scanning an original Sturmanskie dial, faded lume and all, then reprinting it onto another dial -- perhaps an original Sturmanskie dial, perhaps just a Sportivnie. In this way, it is a convincing fake, but still just a reprint.

    Over time and after viewing and analyzing thousands of these, you develop a pretty good "sense" of what is authentic and what is not. Schnurrp described this on the forums a while back and I rolled my eyes at his comment until I found myself using this same "sense" to distinguish real from fake. After seeing enough examples and investing hundreds of hours in study, I think you'll also be able to easily identify what is authentic -- and also realize that the one from fialkin is, unfortunately, anything but.

    Good luck and keep posting!

  9. #8
    Member Dimy's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    also, the serial number on the original never exceed 5 digits; production is from '50 - '53 (if the memory serves me correctly, which is doubtful)

  10. #9
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    I want to show the dial on mine because it has a couple of the details slls mentions as perhaps bogus, the thick printing and the too red star. However, the dial face itself is so convincingly aged with slight discoloration where you would expect it that if this is a fake it is the work of a master. The red star is perfectly done and, to my eye, may be fading a bit in the middle and at the edges allowing the black outline of the star to show through. Also the silver second hand is not unheard of but it is generally accepted that red is the preferred original color. The question in my mind is that if this watch is a fake and the star was touched up why didn't the "creator" just go ahead and paint the second hand, too? What do you think, comrades?

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  11. #10
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    Re: Shturmanskie Gagarin.

    Need a better resolution to tell detail in your photo Comrade.

    The red star is often retouched in these because it is the Red Star.

    I have seen brown second hands too.


    Silve has bad readability and since this is a military watch this makes it very unlikely. Red is much more readable.
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