Stalin's Pobeda
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  1. #1
    Member Lucidor's Avatar
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    Picture Stalin's Pobeda

    It is said that Stalin personally approved the design of the Pobeda to celebrate the victory in the Great Patriotic War. I have never seen any evidence of this, but it's a good story nevereless and quite plausible. But there are billions of Pobedas, so which design would it be? The Pobeda watches were first made at the Penza factory in 1946, but since they couldn't keep up with demand, the production were later spawned to other factories as well. But if the watch story about Stalin is true, then it must refer to the first watches made at Penza in the first year of production.

    I have recently acquired a watch that matches that specific configuration; a Penza made Pobeda from the fourth quarter of 1946 in silver case. I'd like to think that this is the design referred to in that story. It shows its age, but I don't mind. It just adds character and a sense of history.







    Last edited by Lucidor; February 23rd, 2013 at 16:07.
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  2. #2
    AID
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Yey! Congratulations, you just got one of this most thought after Soviet watches! This is my favorite configuration for Pobeda!
    Watchmaking is a lifestyle!


  3. #3
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Did you dust it for Stalin's fingerprints? :)
    OhDark30 and Quartersawn like this.

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    Member GlenRoiland's Avatar
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Is that movement in action in that shot? It appears it is ticking!

    Great watch. Enjoy it in goo health!


    Glen
    Δός μοι πᾶ στῶ καὶ τὰν γᾶν κινάσω.
    Give me where to stand and I will move the earth

    Archimedes quoted by Pappus of Alexandria

  6. #5
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Firstly - marvelous one! And has the original balance cock! Great catch!
    Now back to the shape I have to make a slight correction - actually both Red Twelves were made since 1-46 in both PChZ and 1MChZ (there are known 1-46 1MChZ watches). So there were either the cusion shaped silver ones and the ordinary chrome plated, small Pobedas as well. Anyway - finding one of ours is not that easy :) Here's mine saying hello:
    Chascomm likes this.
    Have a great day!!!

  7. #6
    Member Lucidor's Avatar
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Thank you all for the nice comments. Glen, the movement was indeed running. The case back comes off without tools, so it was en easy operation for the photos. AID, when will we see your sister watch? And pmwatch, I did glance with envy at yours before I finally nailed my own.

    The seller made a big fuzz about the jewels being white, as apposed to red ruby jewels. He claimed it was made with German equipment from Glasütte. And it has a gold anchor wheel. Not sure what to make out of it. I thought the Pobeda movement had its roots in France?

  8. #7
    Member pmwas's Avatar
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Well - the jewels are paler than in later Pobeda indeed. The French roots - yes. it is a Lip movement, but heavily modified, probably to use the T18 gear train already made in USSR for Zvezda watches. The arbors and staffs are different, but the gears seem the same, and so does the balance wheel, but I might be wrong - it's just my theory on why the K26 is so different from the Lip's precedessor. The Glashutte machinery... Yes, Ive once read the K26 is a Glashutte copy, but... I don't think so :) It's also true the Russians did 'borrow' some Glashutte machines no doubt, but they were probably used to rebuild the Moscow plants rather than moved to Penza, where all the machines had already been present for some time. Again - just my thoughts. I have heard many different things about the early K26s, even that some were Swiss made ;). Now we have a gold escape wheel (brass of course!) and Glashutte machines, and only the last one might actually be partly true.
    Have a great day!!!

  9. #8
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Quote Originally Posted by pmwas View Post
    Well - the jewels are paler than in later Pobeda indeed. The French roots - yes. it is a Lip movement, but heavily modified, probably to use the T18 gear train already made in USSR for Zvezda watches. The arbors and staffs are different, but the gears seem the same, and so does the balance wheel, but I might be wrong - it's just my theory on why the K26 is so different from the Lip's precedessor. The Glashutte machinery... Yes, Ive once read the K26 is a Glashutte copy, but... I don't think so :) It's also true the Russians did 'borrow' some Glashutte machines no doubt, but they were probably used to rebuild the Moscow plants rather than moved to Penza, where all the machines had already been present for some time. Again - just my thoughts. I have heard many different things about the early K26s, even that some were Swiss made ;). Now we have a gold escape wheel (brass of course!) and Glashutte machines, and only the last one might actually be partly true.
    I agree that Glashutte has nothing to do with the Pobeda design.

    I think your theory about designing around existing Zvezda parts has some merit especially if there was some Lip expertise involved. This would explain both the superficial similarity of the Pobeda to the Lip R26 and also the fundamental differences.
    Chascomm
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  10. #9
    AID
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Quote Originally Posted by pmwas View Post
    .... actually both Red Twelves were made since 1-46 in both PChZ and 1MChZ (there are known 1-46 1MChZ watches)....
    PMWAS -Actually to my limited knowledge (which includes an extensive research on the subject) there were no 1-46 1MChZ watches. Perhaps you meant 4-46? If you know for a fact of one from the 1Q, or even better - have a picture, please let me know. I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

    LUCIDOR - as embarrassing as it sounds I don't have a camera, other then my phone's one. And that one takes bad pictures. I'll get an image of mine soon. On the separate subject those jewels are not white, I am pretty sure. I think they were red, but turned into "unspecified color" from time and oil. As far as anchor wheel, I assume you refer to an escapement, it is suppose to be yellow for very early production. In general the movement looks all original on your watch. And lastly, as Chascomm and Pmwas rightfully said: Pobeda derives from Lip, although I have my own theory about actual caliber. I think it's R25, which was also used in Prim watches. But it's a long story. If you search the forum, you'll find my research on the subject which includes many guesses

    P.S. One thing that may spoil this post a little is that I am pretty sure that the dial is not original, although this is a very early genuine Pobeda dial...
    Last edited by AID; February 24th, 2013 at 07:52.
    Watchmaking is a lifestyle!


  11. #10
    Member Lucidor's Avatar
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    Re: Stalin's Pobeda

    Quote Originally Posted by AID View Post
    One thing that may spoil this post a little is that I am pretty sure that the dial is not original, although this is a very early genuine Pobeda dial...
    How did you spot it?

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