Type 1 kirovskie
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  1. #1
    Member Ham2's Avatar
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    Couldn't resist this (I know, my bad). This 15 jewel saucepan popped up on my radar and after a few days hesitation with little success in tracking down much information I finally risked pulling the trigger. The dial is what caught my eye. I remember seeing this dial design elsewhere but couldn't remember where (other than on the ongoing watch.ru aviator watch project that I am patiently awaiting). My understanding is that this was RKKA/military issue since it had a serial number stamped on the dial and the distinctive star symbol. The cathedral (radium?) hands were also correct (and hard to find). It dates to 3Q41 so no distinguishing factory stamps. Any information (or red flags regarding authenticity) is greatly appreciated. (Sellers pictures) Name:  image-1335633846.jpg
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    If necessary, I will post better pics upon arrival.
    Last edited by Ham2; March 10th, 2015 at 22:16.

  2. #2
    Member schnurrp's Avatar
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    Re: Type 1 kirovskie

    That is a beauty and you are in good company. Comrade Antonov's (did you buy it from him?) can't tell if yours has the serial number embossed on the dial:
    Attached Images Attached Images

    slowprop, valter-g and antilucem like this.

  3. #3
    Member Ham2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnurrp View Post
    That is a beauty and you are in good company. Comrade Antonov's (did you buy it from him?) can't tell if yours has the serial number embossed on the dial:
    Ah, thank you Paul. I hadn't seen that one so good to know that it looks legitimate, so far. The one en route is not from Comrade Antanov (his is a beauty)
    Last edited by Ham2; March 10th, 2015 at 22:28.

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  5. #4
    Member Geoff Adams's Avatar
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    Re: Type 1 kirovskie

    Oh my WORD!!! What a fantastic acquisition! I have definitely seen that dial before, and the example Comrade Paul puts up suggests the authenticity of yours. And yours looks in such great condition. What an absolute beauty of an historical WW2 Soviet timepiece. I admire greatly - wear it in the most excellent of health Comrade Mark, and with great happiness and enjoyment! Very well done!!!

  6. #5
    Member Luis965's Avatar
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    Re: Type 1 kirovskie

    Congrats comrade! What an outstanding piece!

    First Moscow Watch Factoty for sure, and correct for 1941 with the "small screws" on the balance wheel ( screwed from the bottom) and the silver color in the centre of the balance wheel instead of the yellow color of the Second Moscow watch Factory on the same period.

    That symbol appears also in a watch of Mark Gordon's collection and the in the first Molnija models with the corresponding designation of the factory.



    Last edited by Lol965; March 11th, 2015 at 09:51.
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  7. #6
    Member Ham2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol965 View Post
    Congrats comrade! What an outstanding piece! First Moscow Watch Factoty for sure, and correct for 1941 with the "small screws" on the balance wheel ( screwed from the bottom) and the silver color in the centre of the balance wheel instead of the yellow color of the Second Moscow watch Factory on the same period. That symbol appears also in a watch of Mark Gordon's collection and the in the first Molnija models with the corresponding designation of the factory.
    Thank you comrade Lol965 - your insight is greatly appreciated. I am feeling quite confident that everything about this Kirovskie is correct and authentic.

  8. #7
    Member Luis965's Avatar
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    Re: Type 1 kirovskie

    Quote Originally Posted by Ham2 View Post
    Thank you comrade Lol965 - your insight is greatly appreciated. I am feeling quite confident that everything about this Kirovskie is correct and authentic.
    You are welcome!
    I put the pictures of the watches just today, because yesterday I was responding from my cell phone and now I am in my computer.

  9. #8
    Member Ham2's Avatar
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    I will blame Comrade slls for this as I was only vaguely aware of the existence of the black dialed Type-1 kirovskie 'paratrooper' and then he put his up for sale (this isn't his). So - other then the deliberate dechroming of the bezel, this looks (mostly) correct to me (i.e. fits the acceptable variations in the type-1s): 15 jewel movement dated 1Q41 from 1MWF, radium digits though not so sure about the cathedral hands (painted?). Described as military issue since it has a serial number painted on the dial. I'd appreciate some insight from the more cognizant of the forum (seller's pics). Name:  image-1598876403.jpg
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    Last edited by Ham2; March 13th, 2015 at 23:49.
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  10. #9
    Member Geoff Adams's Avatar
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    Re: Type 1 kirovskie

    Well, as I think you are probably aware, it was me who took custodianship of Comrade Hans’ piece. Just confirming this for those who may not be aware. Here is a link to a photo on Hans’ blog of the piece that now belongs to me: http://slls-watches.blogspot.nl/search/label/Kirova%20type-1%20%22paratrooper%22 These are my observations at this time, maybe others can chime in and give us some insight:

    At this point in time I still don’t know a huge amount about these particular military issue Type-1s, as I am still in the process of researching so I can attempt put up a half-decent thread for my example. However, I note some differences between the example you show and the piece I took from Hans. As you point out the bezel on your piece has been de-chromed. And the hands are different.Is there a slight difference in the crown as well – I’m not sure? The difference which stands out the most is the serial number stamp on the dial of the example you show – I don’t know if it’s a trick of the camera, but it does not seem to me to be running in a straight line in correlation with the 9 and the 3. Rather it seems to be running in a line between the 9 and the 4. My example has the serial number running in an exact straight line between the 9 and 3.

    I think we must take into account the different time periods yours and mine were purportedly manufactured – yours seems to come from 1941 – the very beginnings of the war for the USSR – and according to Hans’ blog mine it seems from 1944, right in the middle or pushing on towards the end of the conflict, so to speak. And of course, we must not overlook the fact that your example has a 15j movement, whereas according to Han’s blog mine only has 7j. I can’t seem to see any identification stamps on the movement of my piece, which I understand is a common occurrence for pieces produced for the war effort, whereas yours does seem to have some stamps on the movement, but I can’t make them out.

    The serial number on the dial of my piece is 02716 – I cannot make out the numbers on the piece you show.

    I don’t know if this is helpful, or simply adds to the confusion. Either way – good luck!

    I’ll be researching my piece soon, and will put up a thread which I hope will be helpful as soon as I have time. It may take a while, as I think this might take quite a lot of hard – if enjoyable – work.


  11. #10
    Member Luis965's Avatar
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    Re: Type 1 kirovskie

    Hi Comrades

    I do not know nothing in particular about the dials of these black dialed Kirovskies, they are so rare that is difficult to creat an opinion.

    About the movements I think I can add some useful coments,

    1 Comrade Ham2 watch is from the 1MWF and with all the caracteristics that I look in this type of watch, correct marks for the period, balance wheel screwed fron the bottom (after 1939), silver color in the center of ballance wheel. As in the initial watch in the beggining of the thread, but without marks, everything is there.

    2 Geoff, your watch is made in the line of 2MWF, or with original pieces tooked from there or made in the the Factory 5/Chistopol ( it seems that, after all, they are the same) with correct movement design, ballance wheel screwed from the bottom and yellow color in the center of balance wheel.

    Congrats, they are great catches.

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