What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

Thread: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    128

    What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    After reading a few comments in other threads about dodgy Ukrainian watch dealers, what exactly do I need to be wary of? Do they sell fake watches, or ones made from spare parts (i.e. 'frankenwatches', I think the term is!), or overpricing? Just wondering as I've bought a couple of old Soviet-era watches (cheap ones) from Russia and the Ukraine, and hope I've not been had.

    I've had a search for info but not found anything... hope I've not missed an obvious sticky somewhere! :oops:

  2. #2
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    16,981

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyboy View Post
    After reading a few comments in other threads about dodgy Ukrainian watch dealers, what exactly do I need to be wary of? Do they sell fake watches, or ones made from spare parts (i.e. 'frankenwatches', I think the term is!), or overpricing? Just wondering as I've bought a couple of old Soviet-era watches (cheap ones) from Russia and the Ukraine, and hope I've not been had.

    I've had a search for info but not found anything... hope I've not missed an obvious sticky somewhere! :oops:
    1. This is ebay we're talking about, so check the seller's rating and comments from previous buyers.

    2. Many Ukrainian sellers offer only the barest of item descriptions and a few more verbose ones are somewhat ...creative... in their descriptions, so don't trust the words! The title and description will only indicate that this item might be worth a look; it is no guarantee of authenticity.

    3. Most Ukrainians are excellent photographers. They love to take good, clear pictures and lots of them. Therefore if they're stringing you along with some dodgy goods, they will usually give themselves away with some small clue. They all finish their descriptions with 'look at the photos'. Do so.

    4. If in doubt, post the picture here for others to look at, with some specific questions that you'd like clarification on. Don't post the item number or title, otherwise if it's a good piece, we'll all be placing a bid


    More generally, regarding Ukrainian and Russian items; there are many, many frankenwatches out there.

    Some of them merely as a result of long hard use and replacement with non-original parts over time, e.g. an Almaz with a Volna movement. Others have been put together specifically for sale e.g. a worn-out Raketa dial swapped for a Cornavin 1980 Olympics replica. In Soviet times it was not unusual for Vostok workers to mix and match dials, cases and hands for special items assembled for friends or family, or a bit of cash on the side.

    Some well-known collectables are deliberately faked using a combination of historically contemporary parts and a new dial and hands e.g. Sputnik, Gagarin Shturmanskie, PRC/USSR Friendship. Be particularly suspicious of any mint examples of these. This issue is complicated somewhat by legitimate reproductions of the Shturmanskie and Sputnik in recent decades.

    Picture dials from before the 1970s should not be trusted. Hand painted landscapes on old Pobedas, whilst amusing are not particularly collectable, and certainly not original.

    Any depiction of Stalin will be post-Soviet in origin and strictly for the tourists.

    KGB agents were not issued jumbo sized wristwatches bearing the agency logo.

    Any post-WWII item bearing the inscription 1ГЧЗ им Кирова is a fake, however 1MЧЗ им Кирова in small letters below the 6 is acceptable up to the early 1960s.

    This list could go on endlessly, so I guess the best bet is to post a picture and a question here on the forum.

    Good hunting!
    Last edited by Chascomm; February 1st, 2008 at 02:01.

  3. #3
    Member colt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lille, France
    Posts
    1,095

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chascomm View Post

    KGB agents were not issued jumbo sized wristwatches bearing the agency logo.
    :-D

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    196

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Originally Posted by Chascomm

    Some of them merely as a result of long hard use and replacement with non-original parts over time, e.g. an Almaz with a Volna movement.
    This interests me a lot at the moment. What actually defines a Frankenwatch? For example:

    Scenario 1. A mad Ukranian creates a 1950's POBEDA out of stolen body parts, in his hilltop castle one stormy night. Clearly a Frankenwatch.

    Scenario 2. In 1962 a comrade takes his 1954 POBEDA to the menders for repair. The repairer uses the parts to hand. Is this a Frankenwatch? Or part of the history of the watch?

    Scenario 3. I buy watches 1 and 2. I make one watch, faithful to how it came from the factory. Am I;
    a) restoring a watch to it's original condition?
    b) riding roughshod over the history of watch 2?
    c) just creating a slightly better Frankenwatch?
    In answer to sammyboy, don't just pick on the Ukranians. Some of the worst liars I've encountered when buying watches in the bay of evil have been my own countrymen (UK), and in the USA. Start at the shallow end. You will inevitably make mistakes, but it's the only way to learn.

    b0r15

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    128

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Thanks for the advice everyone, I've just bought 3 ex-CCCP watches, which have all come from 2 Ukrainian sellers who both have excellent feedback (The thread with pics and details is HERE. )

    I'm starting at the cheap end, and to be honest with my budget and modest salary I'm probably staying at that end lol!

    They've claimed the watch has been 'serviced', and none seem to have straps in the pictures so I'm guessing I'll have to fork out for them, but I'm hoping by 'serviced' they don't mean using inferior or parts from lower quality watches to repair! They're also not mint, looks to be in used but useable and fairly good condition, I would be more reluctant to buy mint examples from that neck of the woods, depending on the seller's reputation and feedback, of course!

    @b0r15 - good and thought provoking points there, for me as long as any replaced parts are of equivalent quality (and not a cheaper replacement movement or anything) and preferably period parts I'm not too fussed.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    128

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    KGB agents were not issued jumbo sized wristwatches bearing the agency logo.
    Do you mean like this one lol:

  8. #7
    Member CCCP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    5,288

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Never trust ukrainians
    they too often sell crap/franken/fake items

  9. #8
    Moderator soviet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,953

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    Never trust ukrainians
    they too often sell crap/franken/fake items
    Hi,

    Compared with my real Sputnik, I feel this is a fake. What do you think? But one should be an experienced buyer like I am to find out.
    Attached Images Attached Images


  10. #9
    Member CCCP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    5,288

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by soviet View Post
    Hi,

    Compared with my real Sputnik, I feel this is a fake. What do you think? But one should be an experienced buyer like I am to find out.
    Yes, if I remember is the one with "wrong map"... or has wrong cyrillic?
    Ukrainians are also masters when they sell badly "restored" items for new/nos... I just noticed one of their works with the 5x loupe.

  11. #10
    Member domi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    A Datacenter in Australia
    Posts
    806

    Re: What to I need to be aware of when buying from Ukraine/Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    Never trust ukrainians
    they too often sell crap/franken/fake items
    EDIT: Just to clarify, I didn't buy this! :) Picture from ebay, of course.
    Stalin has pixels...

    Must be real! Back in 1937 their printers were very low DPI and everyone was running Windows 3.11, so all their pictures of Stalin had pixels. Yeah.



    The same seller had a watch similar to this one which he claimed was from 1941, only it had the KGB logo (with pixels) on it and the letters "KGB", like on one of the Vostoks.
    Funny thing is, the KGB was not actually called "KGB" until 1953... So maybe it was a very rare piece, made by a psychic watchmaker?
    Last edited by domi; February 2nd, 2008 at 23:14.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •