1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch
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  1. #1
    Member JOSE G's Avatar
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    1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    It's a 1822/23 Verge Fusee ,the case was made by William Ryley of St. John's Street Coventry.
    The movement is signed P. Graham,London #2183 ,I haven't found any information on him,any ideas.
    Is running fast from 5 to 8 minutes a day,it also has a lever on the side to stop the movement.
    It came with a few watch papers, this one is 56mm.
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  2. #2
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    Wonderful watch! Can't find anything on P. Graham, London, either. Could you provide a better picture of the section with the name, perhaps it is not a 'P' (J?). Don't worry about those 5 to 8 minutes per day, that's good enough to say that you have an antique watch fully functioning. This regulator type is a lot less complicated to adjust (unlike the earlier Tompinion regulators) but I wouldn't fiddle around too much on such a watch. Often, these watches are running fast, because the hairspring might be to short. If so, it might have been replaced or the original was broken at the end and someone had attached what was left.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; February 12th, 2016 at 23:05.

  3. #3
    Member JOSE G's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Border-Reiver View Post
    Wonderful watch! Can't find anything on P. Graham, London, either. Could you provide a better picture of the section with the name, perhaps it is not a 'P' (J?). Don't worry about those 5 to 8 minutes per day, that's good enough to say that you have an antique watch fully functioning. This regulator type is a lot less complicated to adjust (unlike the earlier Tompinion regulators) but I wouldn't fiddle around too much on such a watch. Often, these watches are running fast, because the hairspring might be to short. If so, it might have been replaced or the original was broken at the end and someone had attached what was left.
    Thank you.
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  5. #4
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    Beautiful watch! Unfortunately sometimes you may never find out who the watchmaker is. Watchmaking in England was a bit of a cottage industry where there was hundreds if not thousands of makers who did it part time for extra income.
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  6. #5
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by constellation90 View Post
    Beautiful watch! Unfortunately sometimes you may never find out who the watchmaker is. Watchmaking in England was a bit of a cottage industry where there was hundreds if not thousands of makers who did it part time for extra income.
    Absolutely correct, but practically all of them (if the movement is marked with a name in a watch of better quality) have meanwhile been listed one way or the other. Watches made, or better assembled, by 'part-timers usually have no name engraved. The book of Brian Loomes, 21st Century edition, has now 90,000 names (not only from England) from the late 16th to the early 20th century.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; February 13th, 2016 at 23:12.
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  7. #6
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    It's more J. Graham, not G. Graham. It looks like a G, but that's because of the ornamentation. It's the same with the other letters, but London is too obvious as well as Graham, otherwise you would have the same problems with the L or G.

    There have been lots of Grahams active during this period in or around England. There was a James Graham from London, with records of his work between 1802 to 1808, but that doesn't exclude activities in a later period.

    The hallmark for the casemaker looks more like WP to me, but it's difficult to see. Too bad I don't have the watch in front of me and under my microscope. No work seen by William Ryley, Coventry, dated after 1813.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; February 14th, 2016 at 00:09.
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  8. #7
    Member JOSE G's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Border-Reiver View Post
    It's more J. Graham, not G. Graham. It looks like a G, but that's because of the ornamentation. It's the same with the other letters, but London is too obvious as well as Graham, otherwise you would have the same problems with the L or G.

    There have been lots of Grahams active during this period in or around England. There was a James Graham from London, with records of his work between 1802 to 1808, but that doesn't exclude activities in a later period.

    The hallmark for the casemaker looks more like WP to me, but it's difficult to see. Too bad I don't have the watch in front of me and under my microscope. No work seen by William Ryley, Coventry, dated after 1813.
    The hallmark for the case maker is for sure WR on an oval circle is on both cases.
    That's why I assumed it was William Ryley.
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  9. #8
    Member JOSE G's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    You are right it seems to be J. Graham
    Thanks for all your info.
    Here is the hallmark on the other case.
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  10. #9
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by JOSE G View Post
    The hallmark for the case maker is for sure WR on an oval circle is on both cases.
    That's why I assumed it was William Ryley.
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    On that new image one can see more clearly it's W.R. and William Ryley is from Coventry, which has the Birmingham hallmarks. That would fit. But again, we have no records of work seen closer to the date of the Birminham hallmarks on your case. I have seen a case made in 1813 by Willim Ryley, so that is already later than 1801..1808 on the screenshot. Perhaps J. Graham (his known records of work also not beyond 1808) and W. Ryley got together after retirement and made this last watch together...

    That's the fun about these old antique verge fusee watches and the research you can do on them. On one hand, there is so much material around (and you are not just digging through the last 35 years to see if it's a 1982 or 1983 Timex pin-lever front loader) and on the other hand, there is often enough mystery left to keep you occupied forever...
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; February 14th, 2016 at 17:44.
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  11. #10
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: 1822/23 Verge Fusse Pocket Watch

    When it comes to identifying my verge-fusee watches, I have everything from no-clue to great success. On the one shown below, I have everything together:

    Silver Hallmark: London 1797
    Watchmaker: Walter (‘Watt’) Heasman, Lindfield, Sussex
    Case Maker: Thomas Carpenter, London
    Seller (or later service by): William Dunn, Watch and Clockmaker, Jeweller, Maidstone, Kent
    Initial owner of the watch: Edward Carter (he had his name put on the dial).

    Edward Carter was perhaps (according to my reseach most likely) part of the famous Carter Family (or at least related somehow), long influential in Portsmouth politics, providing many majors to the city, besides being involved in brewing and distilling. John Carter, was the major of Portsmouth with it’s chief maritime port for the Royal Navy (on nine occasions in total) during the crisis, caused by a naval mutiny at Spithead, which he helped to defuse. That took place in 1797, the year the watchcase was hallmarked.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Last edited by Border-Reiver; February 14th, 2016 at 12:23.
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