1891 waltham help PLEASE

Thread: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

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  1. #1
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    1891 waltham help PLEASE

    My great grandmother in-law showed me a old watch she had that was her great aunts. I did some research on the movements S/N and I think its a model 1891 size 0 with a 7? jewel movement seaside (whatever that means). Its a 3 hinged hunter case with the crown above a double scale hallmark. I think that means its a 25 year case? I dont see any gold markings, so I'm wondering if its solid or plated and the karat. On the inside cover it has the Keystone mark, I believe, if that helps. I have looked at hundreds of watches online and I have not seen too many painted dials like mine. It was definitely made that was and was not painted later like have heard about. Any info and possible price range would be great and very much appreciated. I really hope she doesn't want to sell it because it is in beautiful condition for its age and still works and has family history that would be great to pass on to my daughter! I know the pics are not the best and I'll update the asap
    movement # 5568237
    Case# 1745863
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  2. #2
    Member Shangas's Avatar
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    Hi,

    On a watch this old, the case would be gold-filled, meaning that it's two sheets of gold welded over a base-metal case constructed of brass. This was effectively 19th century gold-plating (which is a damn sight better quality than 21st century ACTUAL gold-plating!). If it is gold-filled, it'll be marked 10 or 14kt somewhere as well as something like "Garaunteed to Wear X Years" or words to that effect.

    According to the Waltham serial-number database maintained by the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors, your watch is a Waltham M1891 (made in 1891 as well, by the looks of things). Seven jewel hunter-case watch. "Seaside" would be the name of the grade of the watch.

    This would've been an entry-grade woman's pocketwatch of the Victorian era. It should keep decent time once it's been cleaned and checked by a watchmaker. A nice thing to give to your daughter (if she appreciates such things).
    "Pipes are occasionally of extraordinary interest...nothing has more individuality save, perhaps, watches and bootlaces."

    - Sherlock Holmes.

    'The Yellow Face'.

  3. #3
    Member Erik_H's Avatar
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    It would help with clear pictures of the inner caseback markings, but according to your description you are right. It is a Keystone 14K gold filled case with 25 years warranty for wear through to the underlying brass. A very good quality gold filled case. The movement has been described in the earlier post by Shangas, I would maybe adjust the date to 1892/1893. There were 50999 watches made in 7 jewel Seaside 0 size hunter case configuration.

    This watch is worthy of continuing being a heirloom, your daughter certainly should be happy to have it. My wife has a similar 0 size Seaside, a bit newer and with nickel movement and solid 14K hunter case. It looks stunning when worn as a pendant watch around the neck in a gold chain.
    Erik_H
    Member NAWCC Chapter 149

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  5. #4
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    here are a few more pics, again, sorry for the poor quality, my wife dropped our $400 camera and I havent gotten around to fixing it yet.
    It looks like the engraving says 8131 and on the one on the left says something over 231, what you see is the reflection of the camera. I dont know if that means anything. THANKS EVERYONE
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  6. #5
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    so, with it not having any gold karat markings or years warranted markings is the case brass? What do you all think its worth? Everyone could use some money but I'd really like to see it stay in the fam and In my and I would love to see my daughters face when she is old enough to have it and to tell her the family background and all the great info I learned about it from you all

  7. #6
    Member Shangas's Avatar
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    Like I said, it's probably gold-filling on brass. If it was solid gold (which I doubt), it would have "12k", "14k", "18k" or something. Or ".585" or ".750" on it.

    A gold-filled case will say something like:

    Two Plates of 10kt Gold
    Gauranteed to Wear for X Years

    X varies from 5 to 25 years.

    Honestly, the watch is probably worth very little. It's a seven-jewel movement in a gold-filled case. AND it's a woman's watch. Most people don't buy that stuff. It's probably better to keep it in the family.
    "Pipes are occasionally of extraordinary interest...nothing has more individuality save, perhaps, watches and bootlaces."

    - Sherlock Holmes.

    'The Yellow Face'.

  8. #7
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    It doesn't say anything, the other insides say nothing other than a serial number and have the stamp of a 3 pointed crown above a double balance scale( thats what I researched as to be a 25 year case ) . Below the Keystone mark and S/N it looks like a 0 which im assuming is the size, thats it.The engravings on the case in the most recent pic I posted means nothing then? I couldn't find anything or seen anything with those engravings or similar. They are above the keystone mark in the black area of the reflection of the camera.

  9. #8
    Member Shangas's Avatar
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    If that scale mark means "25 years", then it means it's gold-filled. The "25 years" is how long the gold is supposed to last. It's probably 10 or 14kt gold.
    "Pipes are occasionally of extraordinary interest...nothing has more individuality save, perhaps, watches and bootlaces."

    - Sherlock Holmes.

    'The Yellow Face'.

  10. #9
    Member Erik_H's Avatar
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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    Keystone cases with crown over scale marking are 14K gold filled guaranteed for 25 years.
    The hand scratched markings inside the caseback are watchmakers marks, done during servicing and not useful for identification.
    Erik_H
    Member NAWCC Chapter 149

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    Re: 1891 waltham help PLEASE

    thank you all for the help!

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