1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR - Page 2

Thread: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

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  1. #11
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Here's a watch key with his address on.

    See: ƒvƒ`ƒTƒCƒY‚フƒAƒ“ƒeƒBーƒNƒLー(Œョ) 84−ƒAƒ“ƒeƒBーƒN KOKON*

    The rest is in Japanese, or Korean maybe.

    F.J.SPILLER 17 FORE ST TAUNTON、
    WATCH MAKERS & JEWELLER

    Here:

    The National Archives | Access to Archives

    Box 133 - he (or someone with the same name also from Taunton) patented a potato planter.
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  2. #12
    Member Erik_H's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Priestley says this about Birmingham casemaker mark JR in a diamond shape cameo:

    John Rotherham, watch and case makers, trading as Rotherham & Sons. 4 Spon Street, Coventry. First registry date of this mark was 15 July 1886, also registered 1901 and 1908 with remarks all punches replaced 14 March 1917.

    Rotherham & Sons also used R&S mark, first registered by Richard Kevitt Rotherham 7 April 1841, also at 4 Spon Street, Coventry. Later "Rotherham & Sons Ltd" used R&S mark (in diamond shaped cameo) registered 1912 and 14 March 1917.
    Erik_H
    Member NAWCC Chapter 149

  3. #13
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    The building still exists! It is now an optician's shoppe.
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

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  5. #14
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Nice one Eeeb.
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  6. #15
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Unfortunately John Rotherham's case making shop appears not to have survived. (It sure would help if street numbers were prominently displayed in England!!) The wonderful Tudor shop on the corner is 9 Spon Street. Rotherham's at 4 Spon St. must have been where the intersection is now.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  7. #16
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    You might like this link:

    Rotherham & Sons Watchmakers - Coventry, UK - Blue Plaques on Waymarking.com

    Did you notice 'Watch Close' is still there off Spon Street?
    Last edited by Marrick; September 8th, 2010 at 21:31. Reason: bit more
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  8. #17
    Member trim's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    In celebration of this thread, I started work on my Ehrhardt.

    Root cause of non-function - no roller jewel! Movement is very clean, no wear that I can see - so it probably dropped out a long long time ago. Bimetallic balance rim obvious in this shot.

    Last edited by trim; September 8th, 2010 at 22:21.

  9. #18
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Quote Originally Posted by trim View Post
    In celebration of this thread, I started work on my Ehrhardt...
    I want to thank all who contributed. I really enjoyed this thread too. I learned a lot. I now have an idea what the piece is. I have a much better feel for the English watch industry and how this specific piece fits in.

    Tracking this specific watch to specific locations and finding what remains of those businesses today was unique for me.

    It is an interesting exercise to compare this turn of the century English piece to what was being produced at 10X the quantity in the factories of America at the turn of the century.



    And the much thinner and higher end American...



    The Spiller outlined in this thread really is the last of the line for this technology and for the bulk of the old English watch industry.

    They had no Swatch to rescue them...?

    But the piece is collectable! Like I said, it's a nice shiny fetish...
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  10. #19
    Member radger's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Eeeb, the Ebauche in your watch, although marked by an English maker
    is probably a mass produced U.S import.

    By the turn of the century traditional quality English watchmaking was
    all but dead and from what I can gather hung on using cheap, mass produced
    imports from Switzerland and the U.S.

    This type of watch that you have only plays lip service to English watchmaking
    tradition and I have one in a silver case such as yours which dates to 1918
    yet is key wind and set but the ebauche looks to be made in the U.S and is
    more reminiscent of an early Waltham than any English watch.

    I can see in the pic that your watch has adjustable bankings...this is typical
    of U.S manufacture and is never used in true English work.

    Although a side lever on the English pattern I wouldn't mind betting that your
    watch has a club tooth escape wheel and a brass pallet, into which the stones
    are set, pinned to a steel lever...this is not English work.
    English levers always have steel pallets with beautifully set in stones and a
    ratchet escape wheel.

    I'm not saying that you have a poor watch or anything like that, the
    case is English work and the watch would be finished by a watchmaker in
    England.
    To examine English work a watch from 20 or 30 years earlier would be
    a safe bet.

  11. #20
    Member trim's Avatar
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    Re: 1900 English PW - F.J. Spiller- Taunton - Sterling case by JR

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    Eeeb, the Ebauche in your watch, although marked by an English maker
    is probably a mass produced U.S import.
    Interesting. This made me look a bit closer at some of my movements...

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    I can see in the pic that your watch has adjustable bankings...this is typical
    of U.S manufacture and is never used in true English work.

    Although a side lever on the English pattern I wouldn't mind betting that your
    watch has a club tooth escape wheel and a brass pallet, into which the stones
    are set, pinned to a steel lever...this is not English work.
    English levers always have steel pallets with beautifully set in stones and a
    ratchet escape wheel.
    I have a Rotherhams which is pretty much identical to Eeeb's one in every way - including adjustable bankings, yet it has a proper English lever with steel pallets, inset stones and a ratchet escape wheel.



    Left is an 1860s English fusee lever and ratchet escape wheel, middle is my Rotherhams (c.a. 1900) also with a proper English lever and ratchet escape wheel, on the right is my Ehrhardt (c.a. 1900) - without a typical inset lever and a club foot escape wheel.

    I believe the Rotherhams exhibits what you would call 'true English work' and yet it has adjustable bankings (which are in exactly the same place as the fixed bankings on a much older English fusee) - perhaps adjustable bankings are not certain proof? I suppose it is possible that the english lever and ratchet escape wheel was fitted to a foreign ebauche, but I don't believe it for a minute as the dimensions and proportions are consistent with my much older English Fusees.

    Assuming Eeeb's Taunton is exactly the same as my Rotherhams (which I believe it is) then I would say this is still English work. 1918 was still a long time in the future when this Rotherhams and Eeeb's were made.


    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    To examine English work a watch from 20 or 30 years earlier would be
    a safe bet.
    This is true, but I feel that assuming this Rotherhams is indeed identical to Eeeb's then it is probable that he still has a English movement. I seem to recall his watch having some involvement with Rotherhams in a previous post.

    I accept that my Ehrhardt probably isn't, or is some transitional piece - but they felt strongly enough about what they were doing to stamp the dial side with their mark. I don't believe the winding set up with the indirect winding gear to ensure that the watch wound in the same direction as the old fusee was something that the Americans or Swiss did - but I will have to look into this more later (it is bed time).

    Last edited by trim; September 11th, 2010 at 13:31.

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