2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz
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  1. #1
    Member john87300's Avatar
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    2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    An elderly retired watchmaker friend from Brittany stopped off for coffee this morning on his way to see his daughter and brought me a small shoebox with 3 timepieces he thought might interest me, so here they are as he handed them over, and still needing to be cleaned and polished:

    First up was a Bulova Caravelle from the mid 1960's, with a very hard to photograph textured silver dial with a few age spots but nice hands, although the sweep second is very thin . The crystal needs a good polish up to remove some scratches, and there's a few nicks on the case, but otherwise it's in pretty reasonable condition. It uses a Citizen 17 jewel 0201, signed as "Caravelle Watch" which confirms Bulova's long standing association with Citizen before Citizen finally bought them up. I don't know much about Bulova/Caravelle, but I would guess this watch dates from the time that Caravelle was being used to compete for the same market as the like of Timex, although the 17 jewel Citizen would seem to be a cut above the Timex movements of the time.







    Next up was a French Chrisfer, a brand about which a quick search though my archives reveals absolutely nothing. Even the movement is unusual, a 17 jewel variation on the Lorsa 651/652 series of no jewel pin pallets that, yet again, I've found no reference to. So, it's likely to be no earlier than the mid 1970's, and the face is probably plastic I reckon, but with decent looking hands and a screw back. Nevertheless it's an attractive example from the death throws at the end of the time of French small independent makers of mechanical watches.







    Finally I got a Jaz, not a watch, but an example of what Jaz was really all about then, clocks, as watches were only a small part of their output, until their involvement with Framelec and ultimately Matra. If you want a little more information on this just go to my thread on LOV. So, out of context with watches, but in the context of the French watch industry, is a little late 1960's/early 70's travel alarm, still with the Jaz version French Cockerel logo.





    Doubtless some far more knowledgeable person than me can add some meat to the bare bones of my Bulova/Caravelle, and if some poor lost soul has come across Chrisfer before I'd love to know.Thanks for looking if you did

    John
    Last edited by john87300; May 28th, 2012 at 17:59.
    John
    Watch Website: www.chambresdebelair.com/watches.html last update 07/11/2012

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    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    The Caravelle should have a date code on the case and possibly the movement, similar to the Bulova ones.. The "Waterproof" marking implies pre-1969 (when use of that term was discouraged), but its probably very close to that age. Caravelle was first registered by Bulova in 1960 ( TESS -- Error ), and was used as a budget brand (a fairly common practice in those days). They made extensive use of Japanese movements, but also used lower-end (but still good quality) Swiss movements (i.e, they didn't do pin pallet, as far as I know.)
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  3. #3
    Member john87300's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    Quote Originally Posted by AbslomRob View Post
    The Caravelle should have a date code on the case and possibly the movement, similar to the Bulova ones.. The "Waterproof" marking implies pre-1969 (when use of that term was discouraged), but its probably very close to that age. Caravelle was first registered by Bulova in 1960 ( TESS -- Error ), and was used as a budget brand (a fairly common practice in those days). They made extensive use of Japanese movements, but also used lower-end (but still good quality) Swiss movements (i.e, they didn't do pin pallet, as far as I know.)
    Thank you for that info, it's marked M6, which, when I looked it up, would make it from 1966.
    John
    Watch Website: www.chambresdebelair.com/watches.html last update 07/11/2012

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    Member Sparcster's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    Quote Originally Posted by AbslomRob View Post
    The "Waterproof" marking implies pre-1969
    Which also applies to the Chrisfer - which you date as no earlier than mid 70s - may be closer to late 60s

    very nice trio John
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    Member john87300's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparcster View Post
    Which also applies to the Chrisfer - which you date as no earlier than mid 70s - may be closer to late 60s

    very nice trio John
    Thanks Mark,

    I'd forgotten about the "Waterproof" marking on the face, my estimate of date was based on the only dating I could get for the no jewel Lorsa. These movements were no doubt in production for many years, similarly to the Cattin C66 pin pallet which seems to have had a life of over 30, so I'm more than happy to date the Chrisfer to around the same time as the Caravelle , and I wonder what the "C" stands for in the "Ancre "C" 17 rubis" marking.

    One of the good things about the stuff I collect is that nobody fakes up a Chrisfer, or a VOG, unlike some so called "WW1 Officers watches" !

    Once again, thanks again for taking the time to reply.

    John
    John
    Watch Website: www.chambresdebelair.com/watches.html last update 07/11/2012

  7. #6
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    A nice little set there - especially the Chrisfer. I've seen a few Jaz clocks on ebay - they sell very cheaply despite their charm.

    I've got an Aurore on the way - at least I know you'll appreciate it.
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    Member john87300's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    I've got an Aurore on the way - at least I know you'll appreciate it.
    Ah, you know me rather too well methinks , is it one of the Swiss Aurore brands or from the brilliantly named Apostal Stavidris of Bordeaux?

    Whichever it is it's surely going to be rather nice I suspect

    John
    John
    Watch Website: www.chambresdebelair.com/watches.html last update 07/11/2012

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    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    I thought the French Aurore was Dutrain in Toulouse. Anyway, its French.
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  10. #9
    Member john87300's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    I thought the French Aurore was Dutrain in Toulouse. Anyway, its French.
    Well, it will certainly be one or the other, Dutrain if 1940's onwards, and Monsieur Apostal if earlier. It would be just wonderful to have a watch made by someone called Apostal though Certainly even better than Christopher Iron, (Chris(tophe) Fer)
    John
    Watch Website: www.chambresdebelair.com/watches.html last update 07/11/2012

  11. #10
    Member Sparcster's Avatar
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    Re: 2 watches - Caravelle & Chrisfer, and a "not a watch " Jaz

    Quote Originally Posted by john87300 View Post
    and I wonder what the "C" stands for in the "Ancre "C" 17 rubis" marking.
    It will be a sad day when someone fakes a 'Chrisfer'....

    As for the 'C'... Im only guessing, but it may just be some variation on the movement.... like the addition of what looks like some basic sort of shock protection.... Like say, im guessing!
    A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away...

    Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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