All that glistens...

Thread: All that glistens...

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  1. #1
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    All that glistens...

    As I usually like to post my successful buys in here, I thought I should redress the balance by showing you a less successful purchase off ebay last year. A very blurred photograph, and a text that said it was gold plated but also "marked CT 18750 on the back." So, I thought, possibly 18 carat solid gold! And the seller doesn't know!

    Naturally, it isn't. The face is marked Nogales Mod 17 De Luxe. Which kinda hints at 17 jewels - but of course it has none. Anyway, it wasn't too expensive and was a good lesson for me. It runs well enough.

    Is there a special name for this type of bogus watch? Does anybody collect them?
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  2. #2
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    ...
    Is there a special name for this type of bogus watch? Does anybody collect them?
    Yes, it is called a "learning experience" .

    I think we all have several of these kinds of watches...
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  3. #3
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    As I usually like to post my successful buys in here, I thought I should redress the balance by showing you a less successful purchase off ebay last year. A very blurred photograph, and a text that said it was gold plated but also "marked CT 18750 on the back." So, I thought, possibly 18 carat solid gold! And the seller doesn't know!

    Naturally, it isn't. The face is marked Nogales Mod 17 De Luxe. Which kinda hints at 17 jewels - but of course it has none. Anyway, it wasn't too expensive and was a good lesson for me. It runs well enough.

    Is there a special name for this type of bogus watch? Does anybody collect them?
    How about a movement shot?

    I call them vintage budget watches, and enjoy several of them of various nationalities

    This grade of watch was the lifeblood of the Swiss watch industry from the end of the war until about 1980, so I reckon they deserve to be remembered by somebody.

    Please post more!

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  5. #4
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chascomm View Post
    How about a movement shot?

    I call them vintage budget watches, and enjoy several of them of various nationalities

    This grade of watch was the lifeblood of the Swiss watch industry from the end of the war until about 1980, so I reckon they deserve to be remembered by somebody.

    Please post more!
    Yes - and I know you are one of only a few people to really appreciate budget watches. But this is a budget watch made to deceive at the next level - the back gold plated and marked with 18ct and 750 (only not quite like that.) So I thought there might be a special term for such watches; mabe not.

    Movement shot as requested. Baumgartner?
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Just like the fakes of today, watches with fake gold marks were intended to fool (rip off) the buyer. I encountered a vintage fake Omega recently - took some pictures before returning it to the owner who had found it in his father's estate. I will post the photos if anybody is interested to see it but basically it was marked Omega Seamaster on the dial and had 18K marks on the back (gold mark in those days are normally inside so that raises an eyebrow right away). I was 99.9% sure it was fake but popped the back to confirm, inside case and movement had some obscure maker name, and case was gold filled.

  7. #6
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    Just like the fakes of today, watches with fake gold marks were intended to fool (rip off) the buyer. I encountered a vintage fake Omega recently - took some pictures before returning it to the owner who had found it in his father's estate. I will post the photos if anybody is interested to see it but basically it was marked Omega Seamaster on the dial and had 18K marks on the back (gold mark in those days are normally inside so that raises an eyebrow right away). I was 99.9% sure it was fake but popped the back to confirm, inside case and movement had some obscure maker name, and case was gold filled.
    Well done for spotting that one! There's still a difference - your Omega was an out-and-out illegal fake; whereas this Nogales was given an obscure brand name and the 'hallmarks' wouldn't fool anybody with any knowledge - just the gullible buyer (like me). I suppose its more like the 'chronometers' with 2 or 3 sub-dials that don't actually do anything but look impressive from a distance.

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    Re: All that glistens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    Well done for spotting that one! There's still a difference - your Omega was an out-and-out illegal fake; whereas this Nogales was given an obscure brand name and the 'hallmarks' wouldn't fool anybody with any knowledge - just the gullible buyer (like me). I suppose its more like the 'chronometers' with 2 or 3 sub-dials that don't actually do anything but look impressive from a distance.
    I'm sure they fooled many, even though it is a no name watch, gold watches were always considerably more expensive (2-4 x) than the same watch in gold filled. Now it is pretty easy to spot that it is not gold with the brass showing thru but when freshly gold plated the gold marks probably fooled a few

  9. #8
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    Yes - and I know you are one of only a few people to really appreciate budget watches. But this is a budget watch made to deceive at the next level - the back gold plated and marked with 18ct and 750 (only not quite like that.) So I thought there might be a special term for such watches; mabe not.

    Movement shot as requested. Baumgartner?
    I'd have to check roland's site for the exact calibre, but I'm sure it's a Baumgartner. Not the famous BFG866, but something a bit older, 1950s/60s-ish.

    The hallmark is a nasty trick. That's a new one to me. Not sure what to call a watch like this apart from 'intent to defraud'. It's obviously trading on the reputation of Swiss watches, so clearly it is intended for a market where 'Swiss' commands a premium. But it doesn't have a brand that mimicks something more famous. The gold hallmark seems to be intended to attract more than the brand. 'Nogales' looks and sounds a bit odd for an English speaker.

  10. #9
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    Nogales appears to be a city that straddles the Arizona/Mexico border.

    Anyway, if its a new one to you, then its obviously rare. And if its rare, it must be valuable! I think I'll keep it.

  11. #10
    Member pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Re: All that glistens...

    That movement looks like it was put together with tin cans and rubber bands!

    I've bought a couple like that, too. On the other hand, I've bought a few "blurry shot" hopefuls that turned out to be real winners. Gotta take the chaff with the wheat.
    Regards from Sunny San Diego..........Tom
    ____________________________________________________
    "There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend, those with loaded
    guns and those who dig!"................Blondie to Tuco in TGTB&TU (1966)


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