Angelus chronograph help!
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  1. #1
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    Angelus chronograph help!

    So I've been looking at this chronograph and I tried to do my research, resulting in a 3 main doubts I hope you guys could chime in on. So this is the Angelus I have been looking at.



    1) Looking at the dial, I was trying to look for any signs of redial while comparing to other googled images. Most part of the watch looks decent except for the subdial at 9 o clock. The space in the zero for the 60 seems a lot smaller than the 20. The track looks a little dodgy to me as well but I'm not sure if I am just nitpicking at this point.
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    2) The lume on the other angelus chronographs I have been looking at are of a different colour. I'm just wondering if the lume could possibly fade to a grey-ish colour?
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    3)The watch is listed with calibre 210. However, upon close inspection and comparing to this google image I found, I noticed a few discrepancies. Comparing the base plate and position of it's screws, I noticed that it fits 210. However, looking at the chronograph parts, it seems to be 215. Are there variations of 210 or is this a franken movement?

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    Thanks in advance guys!
    Last edited by Kreyke; February 27th, 2017 at 17:04. Reason: formatting

  2. #2
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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    Regarding the lume, my guess is that the lume on the dial did age to that gray color, and the lume on the hands was replaced/colored to match.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    Quote Originally Posted by badbackdan View Post
    Regarding the lume, my guess is that the lume on the dial did age to that gray color, and the lume on the hands was replaced/colored to match.
    Radium lume can age in very different ways, in terms of colour. Could be grey, could be a rather ghastly sort of green-ish gray, could even turn black (like in German milwatches from the WW2 period). The most aesthetically pleasing is, of course, a cream or amber tone.

    Not sure if the hands were relumed (they of course could have been, but...), the colour looks fairly consistent on the dial and hands alike. Unless they glow, I don't see anything particularly "incriminating" here.

    Except for maybe one small hole, close to the edge of the movement west by southwest of the bearing jewel over the escapement wheel, the movement - most of its levers and the chronograph bridge, at least - seems to be a 215, not 210. Small changes in bridge shapes can sometimes occur, and yet the calibre number stays unchanged. Dunno if that's the case with Angelus, let alone if that's the case with this Angelus, but presumption of innocence would dictate, that I don't call it a red flag, until someone shows up with evidence of it being one.
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  5. #4
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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    What I've found is that there was a monopusher cal 210 as well as a two pusher cal 210. The main thing that distinguishes a 210 from a 215 from a distance is the presence or absence of two screws on the balance cock (210) or one screw (215). I'm not sure what other differences there are between them.

    Here's something you'll find interesting.

    PS I think the dial is genuine.

  6. #5
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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Habitant View Post
    What I've found is that there was a monopusher cal 210 as well as a two pusher cal 210. The main thing that distinguishes a 210 from a 215 from a distance is the presence or absence of two screws on the balance cock (210) or one screw (215). I'm not sure what other differences there are between them.

    Here's something you'll find interesting.

    PS I think the dial is genuine.
    Hmm. Did more research and it seems that you might be right about the variation.
    TimeZone : TZ Showcase Archive » Angelus Chrono ID Help, For Parts

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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    Radium lume can age in very different ways, in terms of colour. Could be grey, could be a rather ghastly sort of green-ish gray, could even turn black (like in German milwatches from the WW2 period). The most aesthetically pleasing is, of course, a cream or amber tone.

    Not sure if the hands were relumed (they of course could have been, but...), the colour looks fairly consistent on the dial and hands alike. Unless they glow, I don't see anything particularly "incriminating" here.

    Except for maybe one small hole, close to the edge of the movement west by southwest of the bearing jewel over the escapement wheel, the movement - most of its levers and the chronograph bridge, at least - seems to be a 215, not 210. Small changes in bridge shapes can sometimes occur, and yet the calibre number stays unchanged. Dunno if that's the case with Angelus, let alone if that's the case with this Angelus, but presumption of innocence would dictate, that I don't call it a red flag, until someone shows up with evidence of it being one.
    Any red flags with the dial in your opinion then? Thanks for chipping in!

  8. #7
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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    Thanks for that, great link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craigven Sim View Post
    Hmm. Did more research and it seems that you might be right about the variation.
    TimeZone : TZ Showcase Archive » Angelus Chrono ID Help, For Parts

  9. #8
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    Re: Angelus chronograph help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Craigven Sim View Post
    Any red flags with the dial in your opinion then? Thanks for chipping in!
    I think the dial is genuine- I can't see anything that could be considered a sign of the dial having been tampered with.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

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