Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87
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  1. #1
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    Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    I'm a bit puzzled and wonder if anyone out there knows about this. I have a movement marked Peertone, which was a Stauffer & Sons brand. There was a relationship between IWC and Stauffer with IWC watches distributed by Stauffer having the movements marked Peerless. But there's a difference between a 'real' IWC movements, which were marked "S&CO" and the Peerless brand, which were marked "SS&CO."

    But what fascinates me is that my movement has a similar layout to the IWC cal 87, yet the setting lever is identical to ETA cal 710/715. The bridges on my Peerless movement don't match the ETA bridge layouts at all. So it seems to be something which is a bit of both at the same time.

    There's a good article that I found on an IWC forum on this, but that dated from 2004-2009, so any new revelations most welcome.

    Ranfft doesn't list the ETA movement, and neither does Eterna Fanatic. My question is: when was the 710 made? Any opinion about this movement, date of manufacture or any spare opinions out there?

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  2. #2
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    Re: Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    Well, the serial number on the Eterna-signed 710, if as I see it starts with a 266, dates it to 1936. The sample 710 in the comparison between 710, 715 and 717 has a 264, which makes it 1935. So you've already got two years of which you can be certain that the 710 was already in production then.
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    Re: Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    I am sorry but I think that the two movements aren't related at all. They look very similar to each other but are two entirely different movements, developed independently of each other. In biology, one would probably call that "convergent evolution". The reason for my belief is that bridge layouts can easily be adapted but certain structural elements are fixed. In this case, the escapement gear and the next two gears (third and fourth gear) provide a clue: in the IWC, they are exactly in line whereas in the Eterna/ETA movement, the line through all three curves slightly. Conclusion: not the same movement.

    Edit: I just returned to the thread and can now see what you mean. Initially, the second and third pictures did not appear on my screen and I thought you were comparing the first and last movement. I agree, the Peerless must be an ETA movement.

    Hartmut Richter
    Last edited by Hartmut Richter; July 15th, 2015 at 21:28. Reason: Additional info

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    Re: Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    Don't know if this is going to be of any help.
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    Re: Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    Thanks - an obvious bit of detective work I overlooked, as I was obsessing about the relationship between the three companies and all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    Well, the serial number on the Eterna-signed 710, if as I see it starts with a 266, dates it to 1936. The sample 710 in the comparison between 710, 715 and 717 has a 264, which makes it 1935. So you've already got two years of which you can be certain that the 710 was already in production then.

  7. #6
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    Re: Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Habitant View Post
    Thanks - an obvious bit of detective work I overlooked, as I was obsessing about the relationship between the three companies and all that.
    I, on the other hand, didn't bother about the relationships between the companies in question at all (I am familiar of the relationship between ETA and Eterna)- instead, I assumed that when there are too many unknowns, I will stick to what is known- in this case, the Eterna serial numbers- and use that to provide anything useful for further research.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  8. #7
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    Re: Another mystery calibre - ETA 710 versus IWC 87

    Yep, wasn't sure where the movement fell in the timeline split between ETA and Eterna companies, blah, blah... so wasn't sure if the Etena numbers would work for what was evidently an ETA movement,

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    I, on the other hand, didn't bother about the relationships between the companies in question at all (I am familiar of the relationship between ETA and Eterna)- instead, I assumed that when there are too many unknowns, I will stick to what is known- in this case, the Eterna serial numbers- and use that to provide anything useful for further research.

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