Camy 77 jewel

Thread: Camy 77 jewel

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  1. #1

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    Camy 77 jewel

    Been trying to find more information about this watch - Camy 77 Jewel -but i have been unable to! It was purchased by my dad for my 21st from france in 1961.

    Had a valuation of this watch to be £1,000 GB pounds (1,250 euros) but was offered £600 because it needs repairing.

    Perhaps someone here knows more about it or somewhere where I can find more information!

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    It sounds to me like all the value of the watch is in the jewels in the case. Pics would help but we won't do valuations here... check the posts at the top of the page for reasons why.

    Camy is not a big name brand that survives today. But until we see pics, especially movement pics, there is not a whole lot that can be said.
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  3. #3
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    Quote Originally Posted by jase17uk View Post
    Been trying to find more information about this watch - Camy 77 Jewel -but i have been unable to! It was purchased by my dad for my 21st from france in 1961.

    Had a valuation of this watch to be £1,000 GB pounds (1,250 euros) but was offered £600 because it needs repairing.

    Perhaps someone here knows more about it or somewhere where I can find more information!

    Thanks
    Camy also did a version of this watch called 'Sputnik' in keeping with their aerospace-themed model names in the 1960s.


    Russian Times - www.netgrafik.ch/russiantimes.htm

    If I recall correctly, the base movement was a 17 or 21 jewel auto by Schild, seriously hot-rodded to 77 jewels by Titus. In Titus-branded watches it was dubbed the Titomatic Jetpower Super. There was also a lesser Titomatic Jetpower with 'only' 41 jewels While there was a very public Space Race between USA and USSR, there was also a lesser-known Jewel Race between Switzerland and Japan. Japan ultimately won with the 100 jewel Orient Crazy days.

    We'd love to see photos of your watch.

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  5. #4

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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    Mmm thanks for replies... I will post the pictures here as soon I got the chance to photo it, it is at H.Samuel, it is currently there for the quotes for the restoration & servicing as the movement's not working.

  6. #5
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    Where did they put all the jewels??
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  7. #6
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    Waltham had a 100 jewel watch with 23 in the movement and 77 stuck somewhere on the rotor.
    Such "jewel inflation" was stopped in theory by ISO in 1974. A document specified what was functional in a watch and what was advertising puffery.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  8. #7
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    A minor correction. The automatic movement in your 77-jewel Camy is an ETA caliber. As you say, 77 jewels are achieved by adding a bunch of non functional jewels.

  9. #8
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    Yes, looks like an ETA 2472 or something of that series. Very compact, the automatic bridge partly covering the balance cock - with a hole for the balance jewel to protrude.

    Hartmut Richter

  10. #9
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    It makes my 40 jewel Shuangling seem puny by comparison



    If you're wondering, that's 17 jewels in all the usual places, plus 2 on the mainspring and one on the crown wheel (auto module feeds the mainspring via the crown wheel), 6 jewels for the 2 reverser wheels and single step-down in the auto module, plus 7 sandwiched inside each reverser wheel. That's pushing the limit of functioning jewels IMO. I suspect that the Titus 41 jewel auto was legit, but upping it to 77 was probably the Waltham/Orient stunt with them set around the rotor perimeter.

  11. #10
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Camy 77 jewel

    Hi -

    Anything beyond 23 jewels for a mechanical movement is basically overdoing it: the additional reduction in friction is usually so incredibly marginal that it is done for marketing purposes. I know perfectly fine that there are the 32 jewel Vostoks and 44 jewel Glashütte calibers, but I will stick with my statement: anything over 23 jewels in a watch is done for marketing purposes...

    And consider that the finest mechanical watches ever built, the railroad-certified pocket watch movements, had 19 jewels.

    I really can't see improving on that.

    Here's a list of jewel functions:

    7-jewel:

    1 impulse pin
    2 pallets
    2 balance staff bearing
    2 balance staff capstones

    11 jewels adds to the above:

    2 lever bearings
    2 escape wheel bearings

    15 jewels adds to the 11:

    2 fourth wheel bearings
    2 third wheel bearings

    17 jewels adds to the 15:

    2 center wheel bearings

    19 jewels adds to the 17:

    2 lever capstones

    21 jewels adds to the 19:

    2 escape wheel capstones

    23 adds to the 21:

    2 mainspring barrel bearings

    Now, adding an automatic mechanism adds 4 jewels:

    4 winding wheel jewels (2 capstones, 2 bearings: there are two such winding wheels in any automatic mechanism of note)

    for a maximum of 27 jewels for a 23 jewel watch with automatic winding mechanism.

    Anything above and beyond this - and there are horological reasons for doing so, but only for the absolute fetishists, adding jewels to things like keyless works and complications that have little or nothing to do with the actual time-keeping qualities of the piece in question and everything to do with marketing...

    At 23 jewels there is nothing left that moves within the drive train that does not have jeweled bearings and capstones.

    JohnF

    PS: I own several 32 jewel Vostoks and they're fine, but their time-keeping abilities are NOT helped by the high jewel count: they remain, at best, only very moderate performers.
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