Certina magic
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  1. #1
    Member Shum's Avatar
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    Certina magic

    We really need a dedicated Certina thread and a place to share our experience with Certina watches.

    I give you the most sought after Certina model there is. Maybe not the most expensive but one of the hardest to find in good condition.

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    The amagnetic and this one is from 1964 and was only sold as a special model fore those that needed extra protection. These have either 014 or 114 cases and are a little thicker then the 012, 013, 112 and 113 cases.

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    I had a lot of trouble getting it open and failed with the superglue method as there wasn't enough metal to glue against but I found a old case key that fit perfectly and had a long handle so opened it was. Automatics has this special case back and the manual models only have the toad. The first generation of Certina DS only had a blank caseback though.

    No, those scratches are not my doing but others failing to have it opened.

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    Under the caseback one finds the rubber suspension and a thick inner lid. I had to use a case knife to get the lid off as it was snap fit against the movement holder.

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    Pure perfection (Certina Caliber 25-651) so I had to take my time when servicing it and after it was done it ran +/- 1 second in six positions so this movement has not run much over the years. Observe one needs to remove the movement holder before one can remove the rotor. Why I say this is because you need to remember to install the rotor before the movement holder and before one puts on the hands as well.

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    Even the dial is extra thick and goes against the movement holder.

    Sorry for the colors in some of the pictures but they were only for me and posting them was only a after thought..

  2. #2
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    Re: Certina magic

    Thank you for showing this. I really enjoy learning about Certina. That a magnetic is very interesting. I now have a virtually NOS Bristol 228 and a DS which needs some work. Is there any trick to removing the suspension? Will it tear easily or is there difficulty in putting it back in? I am trying to replace the crystal.

  3. #3
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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Giotime View Post
    Thank you for showing this. I really enjoy learning about Certina. That a magnetic is very interesting. I now have a virtually NOS Bristol 228 and a DS which needs some work. Is there any trick to removing the suspension? Will it tear easily or is there difficulty in putting it back in? I am trying to replace the crystal.
    There must have been a special tool once but I have never seen it so one need to do it correct as not to damage the movement holder or rubber supension.

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    First remove the stem and then insert a screwdriver like on the picture and then bend back a little so the package comes up a bit then insert the screwdriver deeper so you get a more shallow angle then bend back again and do this a few times, the rubber suspension well now start to come up and you can remove the movement from the case.

    Do not try to bend around the edge of movement holder as this will only damage it!

    To get it back in the case put the movement on a soft plinth and rap the rubber ring around the movement holder then put the case on top then press it down so it starts to grab, then hold tight and turn it over, now you use a hard rounded peace of wood or metal and at the same time as you push down on the rubber ring press it to the sides as well so the rubber will contract as it goes down. You will find it not to hard if you do it in this way.

    The crystal to use if you don't have an original is the Sternkreuz ATCT diver crystal. And it should have a diameter of 31.0 mm and nothing else! There are a few wrong suggestions on the net about this so don't follow those.
    https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/di...ged-glass-atct
    Last edited by Shum; March 26th, 2018 at 02:43.
    Giotime, bsshog40, busmatt and 2 others like this.

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    Re: Certina magic

    That's nice, I like it!
    Bobby - My original music! Check me out! Thanks!
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...11CC8CC6093D80

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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shum View Post
    . . . . and failed with the superglue method as there wasn't enough metal to glue against . . .
    How many pounds of air pressure did you use?
    Courtesy of ULF.

  7. #6
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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by pithy View Post
    How many pounds of air pressure did you use?
    Air pressure?

    Am I missing something here?

  8. #7
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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shum View Post
    Air pressure?

    Am I missing something here?
    I never thought of this, but perhaps @pithy is implying you could use an air impact wrench on the hex nut. It sounds like overkill, so maybe this is a joke, but in principle it would definitely help break the seal to get the threads unstuck. In general, when threads are stuck, it's often more effective to provide a sharp impact than a large amount of steady torque. Personally, I would probably be more tempted to use a long-handled wrench and give it a gentle whack with a mallet. However, if you did try an impact wrench, to avoid damaging the case, you'd need to be careful that the thickness of the nut was more than enough to accommodate the depth of the driver bit.

    Sorry to hijack the thread. Please carry on, because I'm still looking to add my first Certina to my collection.
    Shum likes this.
    -- Dan (formerly known as @badbackdan)
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  9. #8
    Member pithy's Avatar
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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shum View Post
    Air pressure? Am I missing something here?
    Perhaps.

    I am regularly presented the undoable - work that has been abandoned or refused by others.

    Engraved backs receive cynoacrylate.

    Raised backs get epoxy.

    I have a regulator attached directly to my wrench.

    With the pressure turned down low I let the socket rattle.

    I could break the bond between the nut and back at any time with sufficient torque.

    Few threads can refuse this strategy.
    Shum likes this.
    Courtesy of ULF.

  10. #9
    Member pithy's Avatar
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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by badbackdan View Post
    . . . . However, if you did try an impact wrench, to avoid damaging the case, you'd need to be careful that the thickness of the nut was more than enough to accommodate the depth of the driver bit. . . .
    Indeed.

    I have leather washers in the socket to dampen the impact.

    It's still easy to dimple the caseback on a lightly constructed dress watch if to much pressure is applied.

    On severe occasions you can mount the case - with pine blocks between the lugs - in a bench vise.

    The added rigidity of this mounting amplifies the positive effects of the repeated small impulses.

    I have on rare occasions mounted a watch in a four jaw chuck in a tool room lathe and mounted a key to a tailstock and dogged it off.

    Feed was then added to secure the engagement and the drive pulley was used as a lever to effect the breakout.

    Chemicals, pyrotechnics, the vagaries of heat and cold shock, etc. having been previously applied few watches can resist this but it can dislodge the odd lug.

    A spanner can be engaged and struck with a mallet but this often tears the keying and or twists the lugs.
    badbackdan and Shum like this.
    Courtesy of ULF.

  11. #10
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    Re: Certina magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Shum View Post
    There must have been a special tool once but I have never seen it so one need to do it correct as not to damage the movement holder or rubber supension.

    Name:  1000364.jpg
Views: 474
Size:  201.1 KB
    First remove the stem and then insert a screwdriver like on the picture and then bend back a little so the package comes up a bit then insert the screwdriver deeper so you get a more shallow angle then bend back again and do this a few times, the rubber suspension well now start to come up and you can remove the movement from the case.

    Do not try to bend around the edge of movement holder as this will only damage it!

    To get it back in the case put the movement on a soft plinth and rap the rubber ring around the movement holder then put the case on top then press it down so it starts to grab, then hold tight and turn it over, now you use a hard rounded peace of wood or metal and at the same time as you push down on the rubber ring press it to the sides as well so the rubber will contract as it goes down. You will find it not to hard if you do it in this way.

    The crystal to use if you don't have an original is the Sternkreuz ATCT diver crystal. And it should have a diameter of 31.0 mm and nothing else! There are a few wrong suggestions on the net about this so don't follow those.
    https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/di...ged-glass-atct
    Thanks Shum. I did manage to remove my DS movement and change the crystal as per your instructions. All worked great. I had already bought a crystal from someone who said it was original. Paid too much I think $28. Not sure it was an original piece but it did fit perfectly -nice snug press in. One more question if you don't mind... I also have a stem problem. 25-66 movement. Watch will wind but won't set. I notice that my stem is a 2 piece split stem. Is this correct? When I look for a replacement it looks like the 25-66 uses a one piece and not split. Which is correct? And is $20-$25 about the correct price for a stem. Of course I am not even sure if it is a stem issue.
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