Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times
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  • 1 Post By SilkeN
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Thread: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

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  1. #1
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    I'm always looking after early Zenith movements trying to get a picture about the beginning of these success story. Therefore I bid on a watch with a cruel round polished movement and not really useable broken case

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    The reason was simple. I've never seen these bridge form before and it looks quite initial. I was not really surpriced that I found more tinker inside. The hole bridge with the winding wheels was substituted. On one side I breath out because the click patentet 1907 (CH 41448) and not matching with my definition of an early movement. On the other side I get more uncertain what I've here.

    The facts:
    - No protecting surface on the brass anywhere (gold or nickel) except the probably substitued spring house
    - The cocks are orginal "just" round polished marked with the "0" matching to the movementnumber
    - Movementnumber 9400
    - Case number 2352302-5264 800 silver Zenith marked savonnete may be gildet in former times
    - The subtitued bridge match 100% with the brige of the "classic" Zenith anker movement
    - The balance cock seems to be untouched and pure brass also

    Here are the pics for brainstorming with the matching Zenth anker part:

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    You see the tinker and the "orginal" seems to have owned stacks were you now see filed round.

    Here a mix Zenith anker and this movement:

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    hard to take a photo but it match 100%

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    Any toughts or ideas to become any sence in this brass movement ? If it ever was gildet/ nickel plated it must be completely removed by a electrolytic method. I don't know if it excist and beyond gold you always have a silver layer. The surpace was definetly polished later on because of the ugly brass plaques. This truely smartly person definetly don't handelt within the movement. All edges are all right and the plaques are still there. Therefore at least two differend acteurs who worked on it..

    Let fly the thoughts and write down please. we'll see if we get an idea of what happen to his movement and his orgin/age

    regards Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; June 1st, 2015 at 13:19.
    Emre likes this.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    WOW, that is an interesting one! The base movement is probably the old Zenith Cal. 18'''-N in the savonette version (Rössler shows the lepine version) - but not only the shape of the winding bridge but also the geartrain bridge/cock differs. Only the balance cock seems original. There is always the possibility that the movement was originally plated and the plating removed but the brass colour of the various bridges differs too. I agree that on that basis alone, at least one person other than Zenith has been at it.

    Thanks for showing.

    Hartmut Richter

  3. #3
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    Yes, with the 18''' Zenith Anker we speak about the same movement. After I start cleaning I saw the simularies. I took the matching part out of a 18'''' Zenith Anker:

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    Minimalized differences were the cocks are placed. (Sorry I took the picture within the work)

    Kind regards Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; June 1st, 2015 at 21:48.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

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  5. #4
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    Thanks for the confirmation. It's always nice to be proven right!

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #5
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    Really interesting bridge configuration Silke - I think I saw this or similar lay-out from that era in Pavel Bure timepieces.

    Also interesting script of 'Zenith', any information how long this script was used? GFJ/Billodes was up to 1908,then switched to brand name 'Zenith' ? How was this branding chronology?

  7. #6
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    The first "Zenith" (subbrand) movements appeared in 1897. The name was used as a brand name, also on the dial, up to 1911. Thereafter, GF-J stepped down and the company changed name to Zenith SA. The type of movement and the script of "Zenith" suggest ca. 1900-1905.

    Hartmut Richter
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  8. #7
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    Yes Hartmut is right and I hoped to find something in the smal gap between 1897 and 1900. The 18''' Zenih Anker is probably the one who went in a longtime serie. No one seems to know anything about the design of the first published Zenith. Of course this was a perfect finished one. This movement and the ground was designed for this bridges and its uncommun. The cock side differ and the winding side is exactly the same to the 18''' Zenith anker. Maybe just a variation or a wraped test a stuff used for his own later on. I guess I'll never find out but I like those games.
    The click you can date after 1907 but it could be changed secondary as the case. Its to high for the plate. Semperviviens guess the age of the case could be 1907/08 but he had a soft database within this aera. I also find interesting the round piled aeras on the bassplate. I'm sure its a orginal but old Zenith part. Unfortunately I can't assign it to any caliber. The 18''' Zenith Anker I know don't have stalks. Maybe I've luck and someone here has a matching watch and thus additional informaion.

    I'll wait and go on collecting informations and old scrab



    Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; June 1st, 2015 at 23:45.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  9. #8
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: Of course a hardly mistreated Zenith pw movement but what was it in former times

    Oh Emre I forget your question about : Brands and Company name. Georges Favre Jacot used a lot of them side by side. I'd made a very short thread within the Zenith secrion https://forums.watchuseek.com/f27/wha...t-1841538.html

    This stops anywhere around 1920 and the Zenith S.A. just sell "Zenith" or for customers probably a little longer.

    Kind regards Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

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