Cyma 334 mystery...
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  1. #1
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Cyma 334 mystery...

    Hi -

    My digital camera is still not back (see my rant about Nikon in the photography subforum of the Cafe forum...), hence I've not been posting many photos.

    But I got a watch off of eBay yesterday that made me go get my daughter's Casio, which has a lousy macro function, to take some of these pictures.

    The watch is a rather battered Cyma 334 from the 1930s. Nickel steel case that has seen some real battering, but the dial is okay (no pix yet...) and the reason I got it was to get the movement: it's a Cyma 334 as can be seen in this picture from Ranfft's database. This picture from Ranfft is of the 335, which he says is not different from the 334, but I'm not sure.



    Now, what I have is definitely the same caliber, but with a huge difference: there is no partial plate, but rather this calibre uses a full plate! Again, sorry for the lousy picture, but this Casio just doesn't perform as well as my Nikon:



    And here I've tweaked the picture a tad:



    Now, the mystery deepens: this calibre doesn't have the word "Cyma" engraved on it, just:

    Swiss Made
    Brevets + Patented
    ref. 334

    15 jewels.

    But these are definitely two related movememnts: the size is identical, the microadjustment is the same, and the very funky and really cool escapement looks to be identical.

    The best part: spent all of €8.50 including S&H. Sometimes eBay can really be your friend.

    My plans for the watch: when I have the time, it will be taken apart, cleaned, oiled, redo the face of the dial. I will work with my watchmaker here, as cleaning the geneva stripes - which are really, really nicely done, by the way - is necessary (the oils from somebody's fingerprints have marked them beyond what can be simply removed with microfibre) and I'd like to replace most of the screws (they're a tad battered) with new blued screws after getting the rest of the watch in shape. Oh, and of course a new mainspring, this one runs down after around 15 hours or so.

    Inside case markings show that it was worked on in 1940, 1954, 1967, 1983, 1990 and in 2003. The case itself is, as I said, fairly battered and needs quite a bit of work on it, and I may choose instead to have it replaced, perhaps where I could put a mineral glass back on it to show it off.

    But the mystery remains: surely this is a 334, but what's the deal with the full plate? I know that means that the geometrical stability of the watch is significantly improved, but is this perhaps the difference between the 334 and the 335 that Ranfft shows?

    JohnF
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  2. #2
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Is this better?

    Steve
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  3. #3
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Hi -

    For a moment I thought that someone else had exactly the same watch!

    Thanks for the processing, but none of the pictures I was able to take really shows the geneva stripes to their full effect...you can improve on the original, but when the original is bad...my daughter's Casio is the perfect digital camera for her, but really doesn't handle low light levels well (lots of noise in the original) and doesn't do long exposures well either...

    Again, thanks.

    JohnF
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  5. #4
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Sorry, no piccies - but I have (probably) had the same experience!

    A long while ago, I picked up an old Kienzle in a batch of watches from eBay, which was marked:

    "Kienzle
    Swiss

    17 Jewels
    Shockproof"

    and inside, it had an FHF-ST 69. This can be seen under http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...wk&Standard_96. The one shown by Ranfft is the FHF 96 and mine doesn't have the pitting anyway. What really strikes one is that in mine also, the geartrain and the mainspring bridges have been fused to form a 3/4 plate (German style). I don't know whether the ST (Standard) version of the FHF 96 differs in this respect from the ordinary FHF 96 and the good Dr. Ranfft just picked the wrong picture, or whether Kienzle decided to be Germanic and put their own 3/4 plate in (normally, one would hardly expect so in a maker of such pedestrian watches, but this was obviously their more high-class range of watches).

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #5
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Hi -

    Coool. It is one of the occasional joys of eBay that you get more than you bargained for, and a 3/4 plated FHF-ST 69 most certainly qualifies for that!

    JohnF
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  7. #6

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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Could it be ether a replacement done at one of he times it was serviced? Looking at the time between 1967 and 1983 was when the Swiss were on the ropes do to increased competition from Seiko and other high quality Asian companies. Or could it have accidentally left the the Cyma watch place with out Cyma engraved on it?

    Cheers
    Leon

  8. #7
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Hi -

    I seriously doubt that: that would have been rather unusual, to put it mildly, changing from a 3/4 plate to a full plate...

    I have a feeling that this may be an export item, one where the name was not engraved on the calibre in order to save on import tariffs.

    JohnF
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  9. #8
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Sorry, double click = double posting

    Regards, Roland Ranfft
    Last edited by Roland Ranfft; June 18th, 2007 at 16:20.

  10. #9
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...

    Hi JohnF,

    it often happend that large scale produced movements (and Cymas
    definitely are) were left for other lables with different bridge shapes, to let
    them appear as genuin products of the particular customer. That's the
    reason, that in most old registers only the dial view is used to identify a
    calibre.

    Moreover, in all times watch makers and companies added their own parts
    to bought movements. I just got an extreme example of modifying a large
    scale movement. This is the original Felsa 4010N:



    And this is, how it looks with completely redesigned bridges and an idividual
    winding gear.



    Nobody would identify this as Felsa 4010N at the first glance.
    However, the dial view uncovers the secret:



    The fact that this plate is bigger than usual Felsa plates of this movement
    generation prooves that large scale manufacturers supported such
    modifications by delivering kits optimized for the modifications.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft
    esdy_11192 likes this.

  11. #10
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    Re: Cyma 334 mystery...We have a Girard Gerregaux with this Cyma 334 movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    Is this better?

    Steve
    D
    Dear Steve,
    Pardon me if I am using this page incorrectly. I'm doing my best. we have a girard Peregaux with a Cyma 334 movement. The Girard Perregaux [inscibed on the balance side of the movt.] had a defective or missing "banking pin" and a bad jewel. To get repairs done I bought a scrap Cyma 335 movt. on ebay [$35.00]. The 334 is only a 7 jewel movement but it runs strong, softly and with considerable accuracy.. Mine last tested at over 55 hours on a full wind. I'd like to find another 334 or 335. I'm thinking that there is also a 17 jewel movt. used by GP with the same dimensions, sub second configuration, and screw down dial but I don't know where to look. This watch was bought on Italian ebay. PLEASE ADVISE if anyone knows. The watch is OLD. Please,..How old is the 334? It is a single bridge movement. Everyone has remarked how unusual it is to find this movement on a Girard Perregaux. But there is no indication of fakery. The engraving is there, and it doesn't look home made..Please write.
    Regards,
    Ben

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