Cyma calibre ID...

Thread: Cyma calibre ID...

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  1. #1
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi -

    Well, got this one in the mail today. 'fraid it's a bit of a FrankenCyma, as I think the face was indeed redone (was hard to tell from the seller's picture. I can live with it...), but that's not so much my concern as I want to identify the calibre inside.

    Over at Ranfft he shows a number of Cyma calibres that just don't match up. Look at the pictures: there is an escapement finger bridge with the rest being more or less a 2/3rds bridge. There's no shock absorber, incabloc or otherwise, so I doubt that it is of a more recent vintage (i.e. from the 1930s onwards...), and it looks to have the finish of the Cyma 01x family from the 1920s.

    Which is indeed gold-plated, really nice, and most of the wheels show the same finish. It is a very strong ticker, performing very nicely, decently regulated (will find out the accuracy tomorrow evening after wearing it tomorrow!

    But I see no indication of any model number, though.

    Almost certain that it is a 7-jewel model, but does anyone have any idea of the calibre, etc?

    Thanks

    JohnF

    PS: looks to be 10.5 lignes...and it does have the seconds subdial at the 6. And it does seem to be ticking at 18'000, which is pretty fast for a calibre from the 1920s...
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  2. #2
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi John,
    It's a 15 jewel movement I'm pretty sure. Everything looks jeweled up to the center wheel.
    15 jewel and no Incabloc usually means 1930s if it's a Swiss movement. Can you tell anything more from the dial?

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  3. #3
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi -

    You're absolutely right on the 15 jewels.

    I've been over at eBay searching their archives for Cyma, and this looks to be a reduced version of some of their pocket watch calibers (the key is that finger bridge on the escapement!) that was used to a certain extent for early WW1 vintage watches. Here the 7 jewel movements clearly lack jewels that are visible in this movement.

    And there is no indication on the face anywhere, just the name "Cyma." No Swiss Made, nothing else.

    JohnF
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  5. #4
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    You know it looks to me like it's an older movement now that I think about it. Maybe you're right - a Cyma pocket watch movement that has been recased. Looking at the way it fits in the wristwatch case, it doesn't look as if the movement and case were designed for each other.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  6. #5
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Not sure about that: the case and the movement are to pretty tight tolerances. Not sure that it would be a marriage: it is only 32mm size (watch case, that is), which would mean it would be what, a 3/0 size pocket watch calibre? Woman's pocket watch then?

    I'm leaning more to a very early wrist watch calibre, one that has possibly been recased.

    It's gonna be a project watch for sure...

    JohnF
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  7. #6
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi -

    Still no ID on the calibre, but I've ID'd the original watch: it's an adapted pocket watch movement that was used in an early wrist watch from ca 1910.

    You can see in the pictures what it should have looked like, as well as the movement...

    JohnF

    PS: Like I said, it'll be a project watch: I've got some vintage watch faces, I'll use the hands, and put a glass back on the watch itself. Won't be a collectors item, but it is keeping very, very nice time.

    But I'd still like to know the actual calibre!!!!

    PPS: mine is in better shape, these were taken from an eBay auction...
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  8. #7
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Yep, that one we can certainly identify as being from the 1910s all right.
    As you and I have many of the same texts and I really don't know that much about Cyma, I doubt if I can be much help on the caliber. Maybe some other of our European friends can help.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  9. #8
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi JohnF,

    I've also no idea about the origin of this movement. Many movement
    registers only show the dial view as identification help, because the bridges
    and cocks were often modified to make the movement appearing as genuine
    product of the watch manufacturer. So a dial view of the movement may be
    helpful.

    Anyway, I've actually seen many unsigned Cyma movements, but only in
    watches not made by Cyma - or vice versa: I've never seen a Cyma watch
    without a movement signature like Cyma, Tavannes, or Tacy (and similar).

    Last not least this movement doesn't match to any Cyma/Tavannes
    movement design in my mind. But it's just a feeling - no fact.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

  10. #9
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi -

    Thanks! Comment from the Grandmeister der Uhrwerke is always welcome.

    It is a signed movement, but there is no calibre designation. I will post a picture of the dial side when I get around to reassembling the watch: I have some NOS dials that I hope I can use, as the face on the watch is, for me, obviously not original. The NOS isn't Cyma, but rather a generic NOS and while I have a number of them, it won't be trivial to match one up.

    And I just acquired around 30 Gruen calibres (largely 1xx and 2xx series), perhaps I can help you fill out some of the earlier, smaller and less well known Gruen calibres when I get them and can do a decent photo.

    I got them for not very much (around 1 €/calibre!) and wanted first and foremost to actually get my hands on a couple of Curvex calibres to see exactly how Gruen had done that. The others were simply included, and that gives me some new calibres to play with to hone up my disassembly and reassembly skills. Nothing like old calibres without homes for improving one's ability to not ruin a proper watch!

    JohnF
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  11. #10
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    Re: Cyma calibre ID...

    Hi JohnF,

    I guess I should have clicked the pics to magnify them.
    This Cyma-Tavannes logo appears to by typical for pocket-wach
    movements up to aboput 1900. And such old movements often have
    no identifier - just the size in lines was used.

    However, most old Cyma movements got later a number to simplify ordering
    of parts, and with a dial view, there is a real chance to identify it more
    precisely.

    Many old Gruen movements are actually still missing im my archive,
    and I'd be happy to include your photos, and probably some data taken
    from the items.

    I tried hard to pass the 4000-calibre border this year. But grabbing the
    necessary watches together didn't leave the time to photograph and
    investigate them. However, biginning next year the 4000 movements will
    be complete (and just some 4000 more are still left).

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

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