Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?
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Thread: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

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  1. #1
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    Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    I was looking at buying a "vintage HMT Jawan military" watch on ebay as they seem very cheap. Most go for around a tenner so you can't go wrong. But then I see that there are some going for 60 or 70 quid! Why such a huge difference??
    Anyway, browsing through this forum I found some tips about the 100s of fakes being produced, but can't find any definitive answers or history on these watches. But from one of the threads on here I see that the military arrow on the case back should be cast or stamped when the case back was being manufactured. So I spent over an hour browsing the adds on ebay from the vintage Indian watch shops and they are all clearly engraved. And some very badly so!! (The ones for 60/70 quid seem to be real- hence the cost??)
    But they all claim to be 100% genuine vintage "vintage HMT Jawan military watches". So I decided to question one of the online shops, and here is the response:


    Me:
    Is this is a vintage HMTbut re-dialed and made to look like a military Jawan model? The arrow on the case back is clearly engraved which wouldn't have been the case on the real military issue? I don't mind buying a replica but would like to know for sure rather than buying something that it is not.

    Response from shop:
    Yes , The military mark on the back was engraved in India because HMT is a Indian made watch .

    Me pushing some more:
    Thank you for your reply. As far as I can find on the web the military mark should be cast into the case back during manufacture rather than engraved? So is this a replica military watch based on an antique HMT watch?

    Response from shop:
    Hi Sir,
    We get watches from an Authorized distributor of HMT in India .
    So may be what you said is true .


    So this "vintage watch shop/ dealer" are now saying that they haven't a clue of watches (or being not commital to them mass converting other vintage HMTs to military versions!). This particular shop have loads of watches for sale and about 20 vintage military ones, all fakes from what I can tell. Should I report them to ebay? This shop is one of many from what I can see, so would I be just picking on this one?.....


    Last edited by Smoking Joe; September 2nd, 2012 at 15:56.

  2. #2
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    What means Jawan?

    p
    Courtesy of ULF.

  3. #3
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    Assume they are all faked, and buy a new, civilian version.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by pithy View Post
    What means Jawan?

    p
    In Hindi 'Jawan' means soldier, particularly an infantryman. The literal meaning of the word is 'youth/young'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janne View Post
    Assume they are all faked, and buy a new, civilian version.
    Good advice, there are just too many fakes.

    I believe even HMT denies ever having made military watches. I, however, do know of at least one genuine HMT military watch. This one was issued to my father by the Indian Air Force in the late 1960's. It is special because it hacks.







    Here is the hack spring not seen in the regular hand wind HMT movement.

    Last edited by aditya; September 2nd, 2012 at 20:26.
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  6. #5
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    A hack spring blocking the geartrain?! I always thought that they usually went for the balance wheel.....

    Hartmut Richter

  7. #6
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by pithy View Post
    What means Jawan?

    p
    That is the model name of the watch, and as above for English translation.
    pithy likes this.

  8. #7
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by aditya View Post
    This one was issued to my father by the Indian Air Force in the late 1960's. It is special because it hacks.





    Wow that is a lovely and unusual watch. Amazing to have the history of it being your father's! Did all members of the airforce get such watches?

    So should I even bother reporting these fakes being sold as genuine? The seem to sell well and quickly enough too...

  9. #8
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    Re: Definitive vintage HMT Jawan military watch thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    A hack spring blocking the geartrain?! I always thought that they usually went for the balance wheel.....

    Hartmut Richter
    This one is very clever, it gives the fourth wheel (this movement has direct centre seconds) a kick as it disengages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Joe View Post
    Wow that is a lovely and unusual watch. Amazing to have the history of it being your father's! Did all members of the airforce get such watches?

    So should I even bother reporting these fakes being sold as genuine? The seem to sell well and quickly enough too...
    Well, the aircraft my father flew at that time (English Electric Canberra) had a clock but no chronograph, stop watch feature. So the pilots were issued these. They used the aircraft clock for timekeeping and this watch to time manoeuvres. Those were pre GPS days. You had to navigate using the stars and features on the land. So you flew for X minutes and Y seconds from waypoint 1 to waypoint 2 on a certain bearing, then you banked so many degrees north and so on........

    I am not sure if reporting the watches will have any immediate effect but anything right is certainly worth doing

    Aditya
    Last edited by aditya; September 3rd, 2012 at 03:51.
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